To the R developers, I would like to point out an issue that occurs with the new R 4.2.0 running on Windows; this is possibly related to the recent wide changes made to the Windows port of R. The issue has to do with writing of the R window. My computer runs on Windows 10 Professional 64-bit with all the latest updates, and has a 4-core 8-thread Intel Xeon processor with 32 Gb of RAM. I have some slight impairment in my hands, so for typing I avoid using the computer keyboard as much as possible. For most of my typing, I use the software Dasher, a kind of assistive technology software. Dasher was created by the Inference Group led by Professor David MacKay (died in 2016) at Cambridge University in England. Later, Dasher was further developed by Ada Majorek (a Google engineer, recently deceased). General information on Dasher and about the Dasher Project can be found on the Inference Group page: http://www.inference.org.uk/dasher/ An example of Dasher in action can be seen on this 2-minute YouTube video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nr3s4613DX8 An one-hour YouTube video of a 2007 Google Talk by Professor MacKay himself explaining the Dasher concept can be found here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wpOxbesRNBc In the 2-minute video (the first YouTube address above), the sentence written through Dasher, for actual use, needs to be copied and then pasted into another software, say a text editor. But Dasher also has a "Direct Entry" mode, where words typed are entered directly on the screen of the text editor or other software -- this is how I use Dasher to write on the R window. Using Dasher`s "Direct Entry" mode, for all effects, to write a word through Dasher works exactly like writing the word through the normal computer keyboard. Somehow (I do not know about system programming), in "Direct Entry" mode, the output of Dasher is understood by the computer as an input of the same nature as a keyboard input. But this is the issue: until R 4.1.3, R accepted normally the word-typing through Dasher. But R 4.2.0 (and R 4.2.0-patched build r82348, 12 May 2022) does not accept Dasher anymore. So, for now, if I wish to use R during some extended interactive section (say, for a first look at a complex data set), and if I wish to use Dasher for this interactive session, then I have to use R 4.1.3. For using R through programming, I can use the new R 4.2.0, by writing the program with Dasher in my text editor, and then pasting that program into R. The latest Windows version of Dasher, version 5.0.0 beta, works perfectly well with text editors (I use EditPad Pro), with Microsoft-like Office packages (I use SoftMaker Office), for writing e-mails (I use Mozilla Thunderbird), for writing on a web page (I use mostly Mozilla Firefox). It worked perfectly well with R up to version 4.1.3, but it does not work with R 4.2.0 The latest Dasher 5.0.0 beta Windows installer and the source code can be found on this page below (please click on "Windows installer" and on "source code", just below the head "Dasher 5.0 beta release"): https://github.com/dasher-project/dasher/releases To set Dasher 5.0.0 beta to the "Direct Entry" mode, after installing Dasher one should go to Preferences > Application > Application Style. Currently, after the passing of Ada Majorek, the Dasher Project is being put forward by a group of people in England, but, it seems, at a very slow pace. They have announced the existence of a version 6 beta, but this is only an online instance of Dasher, there is no Windows installer, as far as I know. Their web page: https://dasher.acecentre.net/ For me, and possibly for other users, the Dasher version 5.0.0 beta for Windows that is available works perfectly well, and allows me to use the computer with a proficiency that would be hardly possible otherwise. Here I request that the R developers take a look at this word-typing issue that happens with the new R 4.2.0 on Windows. As an R user (I work in ecological research), I can only thank the R team for this really wonderful piece of statistical software that you make freely available to us all. Regards, Paulo Barata (Rio de Janeiro - Brazil)
Writing in R // R 4.2.0 on Windows doesn't work with Dasher
24 messages · Ivan Krylov, Paulo Barata, Kasper Daniel Hansen +4 more
1 day later
To the R developers, I noticed today that R 4.2.0 responds to the "Enter" character of Dasher version 5.0.0 beta in "Direct Entry" mode. An "Enter" in Dasher causes the R prompt to jump to the next line, as an "Enter" should do. No other characters (letters, digits, special characters like + = & ~ | # $) are accepted by R 4.2.0 through Dasher. The "Enter" shows that, somehow, the communication between Dasher and R 4.2.0 through the Windows system is not completely curtailed. Regards, Paulo Barata ----------------------------------------------------------
On 13/05/2022 16:44, Paulo Barata wrote:
To the R developers, I would like to point out an issue that occurs with the new R 4.2.0 running on Windows; this is possibly related to the recent wide changes made to the Windows port of R. The issue has to do with writing of the R window. My computer runs on Windows 10 Professional 64-bit with all the latest updates, and has a 4-core 8-thread Intel Xeon processor with 32 Gb of RAM. I have some slight impairment in my hands, so for typing I avoid using the computer keyboard as much as possible. For most of my typing, I use the software Dasher, a kind of assistive technology software. Dasher was created by the Inference Group led by Professor David MacKay (died in 2016) at Cambridge University in England. Later, Dasher was further developed by Ada Majorek (a Google engineer, recently deceased). General information on Dasher and about the Dasher Project can be found on the Inference Group page: http://www.inference.org.uk/dasher/ An example of Dasher in action can be seen on this 2-minute YouTube video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nr3s4613DX8 An one-hour YouTube video of a 2007 Google Talk by Professor MacKay himself explaining the Dasher concept can be found here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wpOxbesRNBc In the 2-minute video (the first YouTube address above), the sentence written through Dasher, for actual use, needs to be copied and then pasted into another software, say a text editor. But Dasher also has a "Direct Entry" mode, where words typed are entered directly on the screen of the text editor or other software -- this is how I use Dasher to write on the R window. Using Dasher`s "Direct Entry" mode, for all effects, to write a word through Dasher works exactly like writing the word through the normal computer keyboard. Somehow (I do not know about system programming), in "Direct Entry" mode, the output of Dasher is understood by the computer as an input of the same nature as a keyboard input. But this is the issue: until R 4.1.3, R accepted normally the word-typing through Dasher. But R 4.2.0 (and R 4.2.0-patched build r82348, 12 May 2022) does not accept Dasher anymore. So, for now, if I wish to use R during some extended interactive section (say, for a first look at a complex data set), and if I wish to use Dasher for this interactive session, then I have to use R 4.1.3. For using R through programming, I can use the new R 4.2.0, by writing the program with Dasher in my text editor, and then pasting that program into R. The latest Windows version of Dasher, version 5.0.0 beta, works perfectly well with text editors (I use EditPad Pro), with Microsoft-like Office packages (I use SoftMaker Office), for writing e-mails (I use Mozilla Thunderbird), for writing on a web page (I use mostly Mozilla Firefox). It worked perfectly well with R up to version 4.1.3, but it does not work with R 4.2.0 The latest Dasher 5.0.0 beta Windows installer and the source code can be found on this page below (please click on "Windows installer" and on "source code", just below the head "Dasher 5.0 beta release"): https://github.com/dasher-project/dasher/releases To set Dasher 5.0.0 beta to the "Direct Entry" mode, after installing Dasher one should go to Preferences > Application > Application Style. Currently, after the passing of Ada Majorek, the Dasher Project is being put forward by a group of people in England, but, it seems, at a very slow pace. They have announced the existence of a version 6 beta, but this is only an online instance of Dasher, there is no Windows installer, as far as I know. Their web page: https://dasher.acecentre.net/ For me, and possibly for other users, the Dasher version 5.0.0 beta for Windows that is available works perfectly well, and allows me to use the computer with a proficiency that would be hardly possible otherwise. Here I request that the R developers take a look at this word-typing issue that happens with the new R 4.2.0 on Windows. As an R user (I work in ecological research), I can only thank the R team for this really wonderful piece of statistical software that you make freely available to us all. Regards, Paulo Barata (Rio de Janeiro - Brazil)
______________________________________________ R-devel at r-project.org mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-devel
On Sun, 15 May 2022 11:10:49 -0300
Paulo Barata <pb at infolink.com.br> wrote:
I noticed today that R 4.2.0 responds to the "Enter" character of Dasher version 5.0.0 beta in "Direct Entry" mode. An "Enter" in Dasher causes the R prompt to jump to the next line, as an "Enter" should do. No other characters (letters, digits, special characters like + = & ~ | # $) are accepted by R 4.2.0 through Dasher.
This seems to be very similar to the problem discussed here: https://stat.ethz.ch/pipermail/r-devel/2022-May/081683.html For the record, here's the part of Dasher responsible for "Direct Entry" on Windows: https://github.com/dasher-project/dasher/blob/0ec7d646dbaadf06b8eebfc11b784738a20e75af/Src/Win32/Widgets/Edit.cpp#L302 MSDN says:
If KEYEVENTF_UNICODE is specified, SendInput sends a WM_KEYDOWN or WM_KEYUP message to the foreground thread's message queue with wParam equal to VK_PACKET. Once GetMessage or PeekMessage obtains this message, passing the message to TranslateMessage posts a WM_CHAR message with the Unicode character originally specified by wScan.
<https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/win32/api/winuser/ns-winuser-keybdinput> Previously, Tomas Kalibera has mentioned:
For Unicode Windows, GraphApp uses WM_IME_COMPOSITION messages to read the keys instead of WM_CHAR, which it uses for non-Unicode windows.
I think that for a combination of R >= 4.2 and Dasher, this means an impasse. Either Dasher should be taught to send WM_IME_COMPOSITION messages to R (?), or R should learn to understand WM_CHAR messages in its Unicode windows in addition to WM_IME_COMPOSITION it currently uses.
Best regards, Ivan
Mr. Krylov, Thank you very much for you message. Yes, the Dasher issue seems to have some common ground with the other R 4.2.0 issue you have pointed out. As I said, I know nothing about system programming, so I cannot contribute to a solution to these problems. I only stress that, as I said, Dasher 5.0.0 beta in "Direct Entry" mode works perfectly well with all the other software I use: e-mail, text editors, Internet browsers, etc., all of them with the latest updates, as it happens with my Windows 10 Professional. Dasher works well with Windows' File Explorer, Windows' Notepad, and Windows' Command Prompt. Thank you once again. Best regards, Paulo ----------------------------------------------------------
On 15/05/2022 11:58, Ivan Krylov wrote:
On Sun, 15 May 2022 11:10:49 -0300 Paulo Barata <pb at infolink.com.br> wrote:
I noticed today that R 4.2.0 responds to the "Enter" character of Dasher version 5.0.0 beta in "Direct Entry" mode. An "Enter" in Dasher causes the R prompt to jump to the next line, as an "Enter" should do. No other characters (letters, digits, special characters like + = & ~ | # $) are accepted by R 4.2.0 through Dasher.
This seems to be very similar to the problem discussed here: https://stat.ethz.ch/pipermail/r-devel/2022-May/081683.html For the record, here's the part of Dasher responsible for "Direct Entry" on Windows: https://github.com/dasher-project/dasher/blob/0ec7d646dbaadf06b8eebfc11b784738a20e75af/Src/Win32/Widgets/Edit.cpp#L302 MSDN says:
If KEYEVENTF_UNICODE is specified, SendInput sends a WM_KEYDOWN or WM_KEYUP message to the foreground thread's message queue with wParam equal to VK_PACKET. Once GetMessage or PeekMessage obtains this message, passing the message to TranslateMessage posts a WM_CHAR message with the Unicode character originally specified by wScan.
<https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/win32/api/winuser/ns-winuser-keybdinput> Previously, Tomas Kalibera has mentioned:
For Unicode Windows, GraphApp uses WM_IME_COMPOSITION messages to read the keys instead of WM_CHAR, which it uses for non-Unicode windows.
I think that for a combination of R >= 4.2 and Dasher, this means an impasse. Either Dasher should be taught to send WM_IME_COMPOSITION messages to R (?), or R should learn to understand WM_CHAR messages in its Unicode windows in addition to WM_IME_COMPOSITION it currently uses.
On 15/05/2022 10:58 a.m., Ivan Krylov wrote:
On Sun, 15 May 2022 11:10:49 -0300 Paulo Barata <pb at infolink.com.br> wrote:
I noticed today that R 4.2.0 responds to the "Enter" character of Dasher version 5.0.0 beta in "Direct Entry" mode. An "Enter" in Dasher causes the R prompt to jump to the next line, as an "Enter" should do. No other characters (letters, digits, special characters like + = & ~ | # $) are accepted by R 4.2.0 through Dasher.
This seems to be very similar to the problem discussed here: https://stat.ethz.ch/pipermail/r-devel/2022-May/081683.html For the record, here's the part of Dasher responsible for "Direct Entry" on Windows: https://github.com/dasher-project/dasher/blob/0ec7d646dbaadf06b8eebfc11b784738a20e75af/Src/Win32/Widgets/Edit.cpp#L302 MSDN says:
If KEYEVENTF_UNICODE is specified, SendInput sends a WM_KEYDOWN or WM_KEYUP message to the foreground thread's message queue with wParam equal to VK_PACKET. Once GetMessage or PeekMessage obtains this message, passing the message to TranslateMessage posts a WM_CHAR message with the Unicode character originally specified by wScan.
As far as I can see, Graphapp never looks for VK_PACKET.
Previously, Tomas Kalibera has mentioned:
For Unicode Windows, GraphApp uses WM_IME_COMPOSITION messages to read the keys instead of WM_CHAR, which it uses for non-Unicode windows.
I think that for a combination of R >= 4.2 and Dasher, this means an impasse. Either Dasher should be taught to send WM_IME_COMPOSITION messages to R (?), or R should learn to understand WM_CHAR messages in its Unicode windows in addition to WM_IME_COMPOSITION it currently uses.
Another possible solution for Paulo is to use R via some other front end besides RGui, e.g. RStudio, but there are other possibilities too. Duncan Murdoch
Following Mr. Murdoch's suggestion, I installed R Studio (2022.02.2 build 485) on my Windows 10 Professional. When opening R Studio, it showed R 4.2.0 patched, the most recent version of R I had installed here. As it happens with the standalone R 4.2.0, Dasher did not work with R Studio with that version of R -- please see below what happened. I unistalled R 4.2.0 patched and also R 4.2.0, so then my latest version of R was R 4.1.3 patched. This was now the version of R that R Studio used. Dasher also did not work in R Studio with R 4.1.3 patched -- please see below what happened. Please note that the standalone R 4.1.3 patched does work perfectly well with Dasher. What happens in R Studio with both R 4.2.0 patched and R 4.1.3 patched: when I open R studio and start writing with Dasher, the first character that I write is now the character that always appears on the R Studio console, no matter what other characters I am commanding with Dasher. For R Studio, strangely, Dasher seems to be stuck in the first character. For example, if I wish to write a plot command in R Studio, the first Dasher "p" is accepted by R Studio, but the next "lot" appears on the R Studio console as "ppp". This is is contrast with what happens with Dasher on R 4.2.0, where, except for the "Enter" character, no other character is accepted by R 4.2.0, the R 4.2.0 screen just does not respond to Dasher. Both in R 4.2.0 and in R Studio, the "Enter" character of Dasher work well, it makes the R prompt to jump to the next line. So, Dasher does not work with R Studio either, but in a different way than it happens with R 4.2.0. Regards, Paulo Barata ---------------------------------------------------------- Paulo Barata Rua Almirante Alexandrino 1808 apt. 102 Santa Teresa 20241-263 Rio de Janeiro - RJ Paulo Barata Sub-S?ndico - Condom?nio do Edif?cio Dois Irm?os Rua Almirante Alexandrino 1808 - Santa Teresa E-mail: pb at infolink.com.br ----------------------------------------------------------
On 15/05/2022 13:27, Duncan Murdoch wrote:
On 15/05/2022 10:58 a.m., Ivan Krylov wrote:
On Sun, 15 May 2022 11:10:49 -0300 Paulo Barata <pb at infolink.com.br> wrote:
I noticed today that R 4.2.0 responds to the "Enter" character of Dasher version 5.0.0 beta in "Direct Entry" mode. An "Enter" in Dasher causes the R prompt to jump to the next line, as an "Enter" should do. No other characters (letters, digits, special characters like + = & ~ | # $) are accepted by R 4.2.0 through Dasher.
This seems to be very similar to the problem discussed here: https://stat.ethz.ch/pipermail/r-devel/2022-May/081683.html For the record, here's the part of Dasher responsible for "Direct Entry" on Windows: https://github.com/dasher-project/dasher/blob/0ec7d646dbaadf06b8eebfc11b784738a20e75af/Src/Win32/Widgets/Edit.cpp#L302 MSDN says:
If KEYEVENTF_UNICODE is specified, SendInput sends a WM_KEYDOWN or WM_KEYUP message to the foreground thread's message queue with wParam equal to VK_PACKET. Once GetMessage or PeekMessage obtains this message, passing the message to TranslateMessage posts a WM_CHAR message with the Unicode character originally specified by wScan.
As far as I can see, Graphapp never looks for VK_PACKET.
Previously, Tomas Kalibera has mentioned:
For Unicode Windows, GraphApp uses WM_IME_COMPOSITION messages to read the keys instead of WM_CHAR, which it uses for non-Unicode windows.
I think that for a combination of R >= 4.2 and Dasher, this means an impasse. Either Dasher should be taught to send WM_IME_COMPOSITION messages to R (?), or R should learn to understand WM_CHAR messages in its Unicode windows in addition to WM_IME_COMPOSITION it currently uses.
Another possible solution for Paulo is to use R via some other front end besides RGui, e.g. RStudio, but there are other possibilities too. Duncan Murdoch
On 15/05/2022 1:09 p.m., Paulo Barata wrote:
Following Mr. Murdoch's suggestion, I installed R Studio (2022.02.2 build 485) on my Windows 10 Professional. When opening R Studio, it showed R 4.2.0 patched, the most recent version of R I had installed here. As it happens with the standalone R 4.2.0, Dasher did not work with R Studio with that version of R -- please see below what happened.
That's too bad. Still, there are other front ends: - Running Rterm in a command window. - R in Visual Studio Code - ESS in Emacs - Others whose names I don't remember; not sure how active any of them are these days. And finally, if you are really desperate, I believe dasher runs on other platforms besides Windows, i.e. Linux and MacOS. Duncan Murdoch
I unistalled R 4.2.0 patched and also R 4.2.0, so then my latest version of R was R 4.1.3 patched. This was now the version of R that R Studio used. Dasher also did not work in R Studio with R 4.1.3 patched -- please see below what happened. Please note that the standalone R 4.1.3 patched does work perfectly well with Dasher. What happens in R Studio with both R 4.2.0 patched and R 4.1.3 patched: when I open R studio and start writing with Dasher, the first character that I write is now the character that always appears on the R Studio console, no matter what other characters I am commanding with Dasher. For R Studio, strangely, Dasher seems to be stuck in the first character. For example, if I wish to write a plot command in R Studio, the first Dasher "p" is accepted by R Studio, but the next "lot" appears on the R Studio console as "ppp". This is is contrast with what happens with Dasher on R 4.2.0, where, except for the "Enter" character, no other character is accepted by R 4.2.0, the R 4.2.0 screen just does not respond to Dasher. Both in R 4.2.0 and in R Studio, the "Enter" character of Dasher work well, it makes the R prompt to jump to the next line. So, Dasher does not work with R Studio either, but in a different way than it happens with R 4.2.0. Regards, Paulo Barata ---------------------------------------------------------- Paulo Barata Rua Almirante Alexandrino 1808 apt. 102 Santa Teresa 20241-263 Rio de Janeiro - RJ Paulo Barata Sub-S?ndico - Condom?nio do Edif?cio Dois Irm?os Rua Almirante Alexandrino 1808 - Santa Teresa E-mail: pb at infolink.com.br ---------------------------------------------------------- On 15/05/2022 13:27, Duncan Murdoch wrote:
On 15/05/2022 10:58 a.m., Ivan Krylov wrote:
On Sun, 15 May 2022 11:10:49 -0300 Paulo Barata <pb at infolink.com.br> wrote:
I noticed today that R 4.2.0 responds to the "Enter" character of Dasher version 5.0.0 beta in "Direct Entry" mode. An "Enter" in Dasher causes the R prompt to jump to the next line, as an "Enter" should do. No other characters (letters, digits, special characters like + = & ~ | # $) are accepted by R 4.2.0 through Dasher.
This seems to be very similar to the problem discussed here: https://stat.ethz.ch/pipermail/r-devel/2022-May/081683.html For the record, here's the part of Dasher responsible for "Direct Entry" on Windows: https://github.com/dasher-project/dasher/blob/0ec7d646dbaadf06b8eebfc11b784738a20e75af/Src/Win32/Widgets/Edit.cpp#L302 MSDN says:
If KEYEVENTF_UNICODE is specified, SendInput sends a WM_KEYDOWN or WM_KEYUP message to the foreground thread's message queue with wParam equal to VK_PACKET. Once GetMessage or PeekMessage obtains this message, passing the message to TranslateMessage posts a WM_CHAR message with the Unicode character originally specified by wScan.
As far as I can see, Graphapp never looks for VK_PACKET.
Previously, Tomas Kalibera has mentioned:
For Unicode Windows, GraphApp uses WM_IME_COMPOSITION messages to read the keys instead of WM_CHAR, which it uses for non-Unicode windows.
I think that for a combination of R >= 4.2 and Dasher, this means an impasse. Either Dasher should be taught to send WM_IME_COMPOSITION messages to R (?), or R should learn to understand WM_CHAR messages in its Unicode windows in addition to WM_IME_COMPOSITION it currently uses.
Another possible solution for Paulo is to use R via some other front end besides RGui, e.g. RStudio, but there are other possibilities too. Duncan Murdoch
Mr. Murdoch, Yes, following your suggestion, I see that I can use Dasher with R 4.2.0 patched in Visual Studio Code. Dasher works well that way, Visual Studio Code does accept Dasher, so I can use Dasher with R in an interactive mode. I will have to understand better the workings of Visual Studio Code. As an alternative, I will keep here two different versions of R: R 4.1.3 for interactive use through Dasher, and R 4.2.0 for running programs (written by means of a text editor). Anyway, I hope that some technical way can be found so that Dasher can be used regularly on the R console in R versions following R 4.2.0. For your information, Dasher can be used on Windows and Linux, but currently not on Macs. Best regards, Paulo Barata ----------------------------------------------------------
On 15/05/2022 14:24, Duncan Murdoch wrote:
On 15/05/2022 1:09 p.m., Paulo Barata wrote:
Following Mr. Murdoch's suggestion, I installed R Studio (2022.02.2 build 485) on my Windows 10 Professional. When opening R Studio, it showed R 4.2.0 patched, the most recent version of R I had installed here. As it happens with the standalone R 4.2.0, Dasher did not work with R Studio with that version of R -- please see below what happened.
That's too bad.? Still, there are other front ends: - Running Rterm in a command window. - R in Visual Studio Code - ESS in Emacs - Others whose names I don't remember; not sure how active any of them are these days. And finally, if you are really desperate, I believe dasher runs on other platforms besides Windows, i.e. Linux and MacOS. Duncan Murdoch
I unistalled R 4.2.0 patched and also R 4.2.0, so then my latest version of R was R 4.1.3 patched. This was now the version of R that R Studio used. Dasher also did not work in R Studio with R 4.1.3 patched -- please see below what happened. Please note that the standalone R 4.1.3 patched does work perfectly well with Dasher. What happens in R Studio with both R 4.2.0 patched and R 4.1.3 patched: when I open R studio and start writing with Dasher, the first character that I write is now the character that always appears on the R Studio console, no matter what other characters I am commanding with Dasher. For R Studio, strangely, Dasher seems to be stuck in the first character. For example, if I wish to write a plot command in R Studio, the first Dasher "p" is accepted by R Studio, but the next "lot" appears on the R Studio console as "ppp". This is is contrast with what happens with Dasher on R 4.2.0, where, except for the "Enter" character, no other character is accepted by R 4.2.0, the R 4.2.0 screen just does not respond to Dasher. Both in R 4.2.0 and in R Studio, the "Enter" character of Dasher work well, it makes the R prompt to jump to the next line. So, Dasher does not work with R Studio either, but in a different way than it happens with R 4.2.0. Regards, Paulo Barata ---------------------------------------------------------- On 15/05/2022 13:27, Duncan Murdoch wrote:
On 15/05/2022 10:58 a.m., Ivan Krylov wrote:
On Sun, 15 May 2022 11:10:49 -0300 Paulo Barata <pb at infolink.com.br> wrote:
I noticed today that R 4.2.0 responds to the "Enter" character of Dasher version 5.0.0 beta in "Direct Entry" mode. An "Enter" in Dasher causes the R prompt to jump to the next line, as an "Enter" should do. No other characters (letters, digits, special characters like + = & ~ | # $) are accepted by R 4.2.0 through Dasher.
This seems to be very similar to the problem discussed here: https://stat.ethz.ch/pipermail/r-devel/2022-May/081683.html For the record, here's the part of Dasher responsible for "Direct Entry" on Windows: https://github.com/dasher-project/dasher/blob/0ec7d646dbaadf06b8eebfc11b784738a20e75af/Src/Win32/Widgets/Edit.cpp#L302 MSDN says:
If KEYEVENTF_UNICODE is specified, SendInput sends a WM_KEYDOWN or WM_KEYUP message to the foreground thread's message queue with wParam equal to VK_PACKET. Once GetMessage or PeekMessage obtains this message, passing the message to TranslateMessage posts a WM_CHAR message with the Unicode character originally specified by wScan.
As far as I can see, Graphapp never looks for VK_PACKET.
Previously, Tomas Kalibera has mentioned:
For Unicode Windows, GraphApp uses WM_IME_COMPOSITION messages to read the keys instead of WM_CHAR, which it uses for non-Unicode windows.
I think that for a combination of R >= 4.2 and Dasher, this means an impasse. Either Dasher should be taught to send WM_IME_COMPOSITION messages to R (?), or R should learn to understand WM_CHAR messages in its Unicode windows in addition to WM_IME_COMPOSITION it currently uses.
Another possible solution for Paulo is to use R via some other front end besides RGui, e.g. RStudio, but there are other possibilities too. Duncan Murdoch
I don't know if there's a good up-to-date list anywhere of editors/IDEs that handle R nicely, but it would include at least: Atom Sublime Text VS Code RStudio Jupyter notebooks vim emacs Tinn-R It's worth being able to choose from such a list both for general aesthetic preferences, and for those with accessibility challenges. I do agree that it would be nice if there were a way to make the R console work well with Dasher under Windows, but the technical details are completely beyond me.
On 2022-05-15 2:28 p.m., Paulo Barata wrote:
Mr. Murdoch, Yes, following your suggestion, I see that I can use Dasher with R 4.2.0 patched in Visual Studio Code. Dasher works well that way, Visual Studio Code does accept Dasher, so I can use Dasher with R in an interactive mode. I will have to understand better the workings of Visual Studio Code. As an alternative, I will keep here two different versions of R: R 4.1.3 for interactive use through Dasher, and R 4.2.0 for running programs (written by means of a text editor). Anyway, I hope that some technical way can be found so that Dasher can be used regularly on the R console in R versions following R 4.2.0. For your information, Dasher can be used on Windows and Linux, but currently not on Macs. Best regards, Paulo Barata ---------------------------------------------------------- On 15/05/2022 14:24, Duncan Murdoch wrote:
On 15/05/2022 1:09 p.m., Paulo Barata wrote:
Following Mr. Murdoch's suggestion, I installed R Studio (2022.02.2 build 485) on my Windows 10 Professional. When opening R Studio, it showed R 4.2.0 patched, the most recent version of R I had installed here. As it happens with the standalone R 4.2.0, Dasher did not work with R Studio with that version of R -- please see below what happened.
That's too bad.? Still, there are other front ends: - Running Rterm in a command window. - R in Visual Studio Code - ESS in Emacs - Others whose names I don't remember; not sure how active any of them are these days. And finally, if you are really desperate, I believe dasher runs on other platforms besides Windows, i.e. Linux and MacOS. Duncan Murdoch
I unistalled R 4.2.0 patched and also R 4.2.0, so then my latest version of R was R 4.1.3 patched. This was now the version of R that R Studio used. Dasher also did not work in R Studio with R 4.1.3 patched -- please see below what happened. Please note that the standalone R 4.1.3 patched does work perfectly well with Dasher. What happens in R Studio with both R 4.2.0 patched and R 4.1.3 patched: when I open R studio and start writing with Dasher, the first character that I write is now the character that always appears on the R Studio console, no matter what other characters I am commanding with Dasher. For R Studio, strangely, Dasher seems to be stuck in the first character. For example, if I wish to write a plot command in R Studio, the first Dasher "p" is accepted by R Studio, but the next "lot" appears on the R Studio console as "ppp". This is is contrast with what happens with Dasher on R 4.2.0, where, except for the "Enter" character, no other character is accepted by R 4.2.0, the R 4.2.0 screen just does not respond to Dasher. Both in R 4.2.0 and in R Studio, the "Enter" character of Dasher work well, it makes the R prompt to jump to the next line. So, Dasher does not work with R Studio either, but in a different way than it happens with R 4.2.0. Regards, Paulo Barata ---------------------------------------------------------- On 15/05/2022 13:27, Duncan Murdoch wrote:
On 15/05/2022 10:58 a.m., Ivan Krylov wrote:
On Sun, 15 May 2022 11:10:49 -0300 Paulo Barata <pb at infolink.com.br> wrote:
I noticed today that R 4.2.0 responds to the "Enter" character of Dasher version 5.0.0 beta in "Direct Entry" mode. An "Enter" in Dasher causes the R prompt to jump to the next line, as an "Enter" should do. No other characters (letters, digits, special characters like + = & ~ | # $) are accepted by R 4.2.0 through Dasher.
This seems to be very similar to the problem discussed here: https://stat.ethz.ch/pipermail/r-devel/2022-May/081683.html For the record, here's the part of Dasher responsible for "Direct Entry" on Windows: https://github.com/dasher-project/dasher/blob/0ec7d646dbaadf06b8eebfc11b784738a20e75af/Src/Win32/Widgets/Edit.cpp#L302 MSDN says:
If KEYEVENTF_UNICODE is specified, SendInput sends a WM_KEYDOWN or WM_KEYUP message to the foreground thread's message queue with wParam equal to VK_PACKET. Once GetMessage or PeekMessage obtains this message, passing the message to TranslateMessage posts a WM_CHAR message with the Unicode character originally specified by wScan.
As far as I can see, Graphapp never looks for VK_PACKET.
Previously, Tomas Kalibera has mentioned:
For Unicode Windows, GraphApp uses WM_IME_COMPOSITION messages to read the keys instead of WM_CHAR, which it uses for non-Unicode windows.
I think that for a combination of R >= 4.2 and Dasher, this means an impasse. Either Dasher should be taught to send WM_IME_COMPOSITION messages to R (?), or R should learn to understand WM_CHAR messages in its Unicode windows in addition to WM_IME_COMPOSITION it currently uses.
Another possible solution for Paulo is to use R via some other front end besides RGui, e.g. RStudio, but there are other possibilities too. Duncan Murdoch
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Dr. Benjamin Bolker Professor, Mathematics & Statistics and Biology, McMaster University Director, School of Computational Science and Engineering (Acting) Graduate chair, Mathematics & Statistics
On 15/05/2022 2:44 p.m., Ben Bolker wrote:
I don't know if there's a good up-to-date list anywhere of
editors/IDEs that handle R nicely, but it would include at least:
Atom
Sublime Text
VS Code
RStudio
Jupyter notebooks
vim
emacs
Tinn-R
It's worth being able to choose from such a list both for general
aesthetic preferences, and for those with accessibility challenges.
One more that I should have mentioned: StatET, a plug-in for the Eclipse IDE.
I do agree that it would be nice if there were a way to make the R console work well with Dasher under Windows, but the technical details are completely beyond me.
A long time ago I used to know some of this stuff, but now I find working in Windows quite difficult. I never knew it well enough to know the advantages and disadvantages of the approach RGui uses versus the one that dasher seems to be expecting. On the hopeful side, accessibility has always had a relatively high priority in the R Project, and there seems to be a recent push in that direction. Perhaps there will be an opportunity for someone to bring up this issue at useR! 2022 (https://user2022.r-project.org). Duncan Murdoch
It is interesting that Paulo reports Rgui to behave differently from many (all?) other applications. However, I have no insight into Windows. Best, Kasper On Sun, May 15, 2022 at 3:32 PM Duncan Murdoch <murdoch.duncan at gmail.com> wrote:
On 15/05/2022 2:44 p.m., Ben Bolker wrote:
I don't know if there's a good up-to-date list anywhere of
editors/IDEs that handle R nicely, but it would include at least:
Atom
Sublime Text
VS Code
RStudio
Jupyter notebooks
vim
emacs
Tinn-R
It's worth being able to choose from such a list both for general
aesthetic preferences, and for those with accessibility challenges.
One more that I should have mentioned: StatET, a plug-in for the Eclipse IDE.
I do agree that it would be nice if there were a way to make the R console work well with Dasher under Windows, but the technical details are completely beyond me.
A long time ago I used to know some of this stuff, but now I find working in Windows quite difficult. I never knew it well enough to know the advantages and disadvantages of the approach RGui uses versus the one that dasher seems to be expecting. On the hopeful side, accessibility has always had a relatively high priority in the R Project, and there seems to be a recent push in that direction. Perhaps there will be an opportunity for someone to bring up this issue at useR! 2022 (https://user2022.r-project.org). Duncan Murdoch
______________________________________________ R-devel at r-project.org mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-devel
Best, Kasper [[alternative HTML version deleted]]
On 15/05/2022 5:01 p.m., Kasper Daniel Hansen wrote:
It is interesting that Paulo reports Rgui to behave differently from many (all?) other applications. However, I have no insight into Windows.
It's not a big surprise. Rgui uses a UI library (Graphapp) that was written a very long time ago, and it hasn't adopted their updates in at least 15 years. Additionally, Rgui hasn't really had any Windows users giving it the attention it needs. And not nearly "all". RStudio has different problems, which means everyone using the same UI library they use probably has them too. I didn't see any open source projects in the list of things that work. Duncan Murdoch
Best,
Kasper
On Sun, May 15, 2022 at 3:32 PM Duncan Murdoch <murdoch.duncan at gmail.com
<mailto:murdoch.duncan at gmail.com>> wrote:
On 15/05/2022 2:44 p.m., Ben Bolker wrote:
>? ? ?I don't know if there's a good up-to-date list anywhere of
> editors/IDEs that handle R nicely, but it would include at least:
>
>? ? ?Atom
>? ? ?Sublime Text
>? ? ?VS Code
>? ? ?RStudio
>? ? ?Jupyter notebooks
>? ? ?vim
>? ? ?emacs
>? ? ?Tinn-R
>
>? ? ?It's worth being able to choose from such a list both for general
> aesthetic preferences, and for those with accessibility challenges.
One more that I should have mentioned:? StatET, a plug-in for the
Eclipse IDE.
>
>? ? I do agree that it would be nice if there were a way to make the R
> console work well with Dasher under Windows, but the technical
details
> are completely beyond me.
A long time ago I used to know some of this stuff, but now I find
working in Windows quite difficult.? I never knew it well enough to
know
the advantages and disadvantages of the approach RGui uses versus the
one that dasher seems to be expecting.
On the hopeful side, accessibility has always had a relatively high
priority in the R Project, and there seems to be a recent push in that
direction.? Perhaps there will be an opportunity for someone to
bring up
this issue at useR! 2022 (https://user2022.r-project.org
<https://user2022.r-project.org>).
Duncan Murdoch
______________________________________________
R-devel at r-project.org <mailto:R-devel at r-project.org> mailing list
https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-devel
<https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-devel>
--
Best,
Kasper
VScode is sorta-kinda open source https://opensource.com/article/20/6/open-source-alternatives-vs-code (that is, the default downloadable binaries are non-freely licensed). Presumably the open builds also work. On the other hand, it's also developed by Microsoft, so it's not much of a surprise that it works better on Windows than some of the alternatives.
On 2022-05-15 5:48 p.m., Duncan Murdoch wrote:
On 15/05/2022 5:01 p.m., Kasper Daniel Hansen wrote:
It is interesting that Paulo reports Rgui to behave differently from many (all?) other applications. However, I have no insight into Windows.
It's not a big surprise.? Rgui uses a UI library (Graphapp) that was written a very long time ago, and it hasn't adopted their updates in at least 15 years.? Additionally, Rgui hasn't really had any Windows users giving it the attention it needs. And not nearly "all".? RStudio has different problems, which means everyone using the same UI library they use probably has them too.? I didn't see any open source projects in the list of things that work. Duncan Murdoch
Best, Kasper On Sun, May 15, 2022 at 3:32 PM Duncan Murdoch <murdoch.duncan at gmail.com <mailto:murdoch.duncan at gmail.com>> wrote: ??? On 15/05/2022 2:44 p.m., Ben Bolker wrote: ???? >? ? ?I don't know if there's a good up-to-date list anywhere of ???? > editors/IDEs that handle R nicely, but it would include at least: ???? > ???? >? ? ?Atom ???? >? ? ?Sublime Text ???? >? ? ?VS Code ???? >? ? ?RStudio ???? >? ? ?Jupyter notebooks ???? >? ? ?vim ???? >? ? ?emacs ???? >? ? ?Tinn-R ???? > ???? >? ? ?It's worth being able to choose from such a list both for general ???? > aesthetic preferences, and for those with accessibility challenges. ??? One more that I should have mentioned:? StatET, a plug-in for the ??? Eclipse IDE. ???? > ???? >? ? I do agree that it would be nice if there were a way to make the R ???? > console work well with Dasher under Windows, but the technical ??? details ???? > are completely beyond me. ??? A long time ago I used to know some of this stuff, but now I find ??? working in Windows quite difficult.? I never knew it well enough to ??? know ??? the advantages and disadvantages of the approach RGui uses versus the ??? one that dasher seems to be expecting. ??? On the hopeful side, accessibility has always had a relatively high ??? priority in the R Project, and there seems to be a recent push in that ??? direction.? Perhaps there will be an opportunity for someone to ??? bring up ??? this issue at useR! 2022 (https://user2022.r-project.org ??? <https://user2022.r-project.org>). ??? Duncan Murdoch ??? ______________________________________________ ??? R-devel at r-project.org <mailto:R-devel at r-project.org> mailing list ??? https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-devel ??? <https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-devel> -- Best, Kasper
Dr. Benjamin Bolker Professor, Mathematics & Statistics and Biology, McMaster University Director, School of Computational Science and Engineering (Acting) Graduate chair, Mathematics & Statistics
Mr. Murdoch, Two pieces of open source software that do work with Dasher 5.0.0 beta in Direct Entry mode, on Windows 10: --------- Apache Open Office 4.1.2 (32-bit Windows application) -- I tried the Open Office Writer, a Microsoft Word equivalent: https://sourceforge.net/projects/openofficeorg.mirror/ Source code here: https://openoffice.apache.org/source.html --------- Notepad++ 8.4.1 (64-bit Windows application / text editor): https://notepad-plus-plus.org/downloads/v8.4.1/ Source code here: https://github.com/notepad-plus-plus/notepad-plus-plus --------- Best regards, Paulo Barata ----------------------------------------------------------
On 15/05/2022 18:48, Duncan Murdoch wrote:
On 15/05/2022 5:01 p.m., Kasper Daniel Hansen wrote:
It is interesting that Paulo reports Rgui to behave differently from many (all?) other applications. However, I have no insight into Windows.
It's not a big surprise.? Rgui uses a UI library (Graphapp) that was written a very long time ago, and it hasn't adopted their updates in at least 15 years.? Additionally, Rgui hasn't really had any Windows users giving it the attention it needs. And not nearly "all".? RStudio has different problems, which means everyone using the same UI library they use probably has them too.? I didn't see any open source projects in the list of things that work. Duncan Murdoch
Best, Kasper On Sun, May 15, 2022 at 3:32 PM Duncan Murdoch <murdoch.duncan at gmail.com <mailto:murdoch.duncan at gmail.com>> wrote: ??? On 15/05/2022 2:44 p.m., Ben Bolker wrote: ???? >? ? ?I don't know if there's a good up-to-date list anywhere of ???? > editors/IDEs that handle R nicely, but it would include at least: ???? > ???? >? ? ?Atom ???? >? ? ?Sublime Text ???? >? ? ?VS Code ???? >? ? ?RStudio ???? >? ? ?Jupyter notebooks ???? >? ? ?vim ???? >? ? ?emacs ???? >? ? ?Tinn-R ???? > ???? >? ? ?It's worth being able to choose from such a list both for general ???? > aesthetic preferences, and for those with accessibility challenges. ??? One more that I should have mentioned:? StatET, a plug-in for the ??? Eclipse IDE. ???? > ???? >? ? I do agree that it would be nice if there were a way to make the R ???? > console work well with Dasher under Windows, but the technical ??? details ???? > are completely beyond me. ??? A long time ago I used to know some of this stuff, but now I find ??? working in Windows quite difficult.? I never knew it well enough to ??? know ??? the advantages and disadvantages of the approach RGui uses versus the ??? one that dasher seems to be expecting. ??? On the hopeful side, accessibility has always had a relatively high ??? priority in the R Project, and there seems to be a recent push in that ??? direction.? Perhaps there will be an opportunity for someone to ??? bring up ??? this issue at useR! 2022 (https://user2022.r-project.org ??? <https://user2022.r-project.org>). ??? Duncan Murdoch ??? ______________________________________________ ??? R-devel at r-project.org <mailto:R-devel at r-project.org> mailing list ??? https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-devel ??? <https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-devel> -- Best, Kasper
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On 15/05/2022 6:28 p.m., Paulo Barata wrote:
Mr. Murdoch, Two pieces of open source software that do work with Dasher 5.0.0 beta in Direct Entry mode, on Windows 10: --------- Apache Open Office 4.1.2 (32-bit Windows application) -- I tried the Open Office Writer, a Microsoft Word equivalent: https://sourceforge.net/projects/openofficeorg.mirror/ Source code here: https://openoffice.apache.org/source.html --------- Notepad++ 8.4.1 (64-bit Windows application / text editor): https://notepad-plus-plus.org/downloads/v8.4.1/ Source code here: https://github.com/notepad-plus-plus/notepad-plus-plus
That's very helpful, for two reasons. 1. Maybe Notepad++ can replace Rgui as an environment for you to work in, since it claims to support R. I've never used it, so I don't know exactly what level of support is offered, but maybe it's enough for your needs at least in the short term. 2. Others who may be planning to fix Rgui can see how it handles input coming from dasher, and get Rgui to do the same thing. Duncan Murdoch
I use Notepad++ all the time. Last time I tried to install the plug-in which lets you run R my anti-virus complained so I abandoned at that point but Paulo's experience may be different and it was a few years ago so the plug-in or my anti-virus may have changed since (I suspect it was a false positive). Michael
On 16/05/2022 10:04, Duncan Murdoch wrote:
On 15/05/2022 6:28 p.m., Paulo Barata wrote:
Mr. Murdoch, Two pieces of open source software that do work with Dasher 5.0.0 beta in Direct Entry mode, on Windows 10: --------- Apache Open Office 4.1.2 (32-bit Windows application) -- I tried the Open Office Writer, a Microsoft Word equivalent: https://sourceforge.net/projects/openofficeorg.mirror/ Source code here: https://openoffice.apache.org/source.html --------- Notepad++ 8.4.1 (64-bit Windows application / text editor): https://notepad-plus-plus.org/downloads/v8.4.1/ Source code here: https://github.com/notepad-plus-plus/notepad-plus-plus
That's very helpful, for two reasons. 1.? Maybe Notepad++ can replace Rgui as an environment for you to work in, since it claims to support R.? I've never used it, so I don't know exactly what level of support is offered, but maybe it's enough for your needs at least in the short term. 2.? Others who may be planning to fix Rgui can see how it handles input coming from dasher, and get Rgui to do the same thing. Duncan Murdoch
______________________________________________ R-devel at r-project.org mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-devel
On 5/15/22 16:10, Paulo Barata wrote:
To the R developers, I noticed today that R 4.2.0 responds to the "Enter" character of Dasher version 5.0.0 beta in "Direct Entry" mode. An "Enter" in Dasher causes the R prompt to jump to the next line, as an "Enter" should do. No other characters (letters, digits, special characters like + = & ~ | # $) are accepted by R 4.2.0 through Dasher. The "Enter" shows that, somehow, the communication between Dasher and R 4.2.0 through the Windows system is not completely curtailed.
Dear Paulo, thanks for the report and thanks to all for the useful comments in the followup discussion. I've committed a fix to R-devel, 82368, and I would be grateful if you could test whether it fixes the problem for you. I've tested it only on a small example which is using the same method to insert keys to Rgui as Dasher does. The problem is caused by a limitation in GraphApp, a library used by Rgui and included in the R distribution. GraphApp has two modes: Unicode windows (with this limitation) and non-Unicode windows (without it). GraphApp uses Unicode windows when running in a multi-byte locale, and as of R 4.2, this is the case for all systems on recent Windows where the native encoding is UTF-8. This means that most likely R 4.1.3 didn't work with Dasher on systems running in a multi-byte locale and that most likely R 4.2.0 would work with Dasher on old Windows systems (where UTF-8 cannot be used as native encoding). Dasher uses SendInput/KEYEVENTF_UNICODE to inject text into Rgui, which is fine as far as I can tell and should work. It didn't work, because the Unicode windows didn't handle WM_CHAR nor WM_KEYDOWN/WM_KEYUP for VK_PACKET. By design, Unicode windows get input via WM_IME_COMPOSITION and WM_KEYDOWN, so I've added support for VK_PACKET to WM_KEYDOWN (taking the logic in gdk as an example). I am cc'ing Jose as Tinn-R has a similar problem, though this patch doesn't solve it. Best Tomas
Regards, Paulo Barata ---------------------------------------------------------- On 13/05/2022 16:44, Paulo Barata wrote:
To the R developers, I would like to point out an issue that occurs with the new R 4.2.0 running on Windows; this is possibly related to the recent wide changes made to the Windows port of R. The issue has to do with writing of the R window. My computer runs on Windows 10 Professional 64-bit with all the latest updates, and has a 4-core 8-thread Intel Xeon processor with 32 Gb of RAM. I have some slight impairment in my hands, so for typing I avoid using the computer keyboard as much as possible. For most of my typing, I use the software Dasher, a kind of assistive technology software. Dasher was created by the Inference Group led by Professor David MacKay (died in 2016) at Cambridge University in England. Later, Dasher was further developed by Ada Majorek (a Google engineer, recently deceased). General information on Dasher and about the Dasher Project can be found on the Inference Group page: http://www.inference.org.uk/dasher/ An example of Dasher in action can be seen on this 2-minute YouTube video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nr3s4613DX8 An one-hour YouTube video of a 2007 Google Talk by Professor MacKay himself explaining the Dasher concept can be found here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wpOxbesRNBc In the 2-minute video (the first YouTube address above), the sentence written through Dasher, for actual use, needs to be copied and then pasted into another software, say a text editor. But Dasher also has a "Direct Entry" mode, where words typed are entered directly on the screen of the text editor or other software -- this is how I use Dasher to write on the R window. Using Dasher`s "Direct Entry" mode, for all effects, to write a word through Dasher works exactly like writing the word through the normal computer keyboard. Somehow (I do not know about system programming), in "Direct Entry" mode, the output of Dasher is understood by the computer as an input of the same nature as a keyboard input. But this is the issue: until R 4.1.3, R accepted normally the word-typing through Dasher. But R 4.2.0 (and R 4.2.0-patched build r82348, 12 May 2022) does not accept Dasher anymore. So, for now, if I wish to use R during some extended interactive section (say, for a first look at a complex data set), and if I wish to use Dasher for this interactive session, then I have to use R 4.1.3. For using R through programming, I can use the new R 4.2.0, by writing the program with Dasher in my text editor, and then pasting that program into R. The latest Windows version of Dasher, version 5.0.0 beta, works perfectly well with text editors (I use EditPad Pro), with Microsoft-like Office packages (I use SoftMaker Office), for writing e-mails (I use Mozilla Thunderbird), for writing on a web page (I use mostly Mozilla Firefox). It worked perfectly well with R up to version 4.1.3, but it does not work with R 4.2.0 The latest Dasher 5.0.0 beta Windows installer and the source code can be found on this page below (please click on "Windows installer" and on "source code", just below the head "Dasher 5.0 beta release"): https://github.com/dasher-project/dasher/releases To set Dasher 5.0.0 beta to the "Direct Entry" mode, after installing Dasher one should go to Preferences > Application > Application Style. Currently, after the passing of Ada Majorek, the Dasher Project is being put forward by a group of people in England, but, it seems, at a very slow pace. They have announced the existence of a version 6 beta, but this is only an online instance of Dasher, there is no Windows installer, as far as I know. Their web page: https://dasher.acecentre.net/ For me, and possibly for other users, the Dasher version 5.0.0 beta for Windows that is available works perfectly well, and allows me to use the computer with a proficiency that would be hardly possible otherwise. Here I request that the R developers take a look at this word-typing issue that happens with the new R 4.2.0 on Windows. As an R user (I work in ecological research), I can only thank the R team for this really wonderful piece of statistical software that you make freely available to us all. Regards, Paulo Barata (Rio de Janeiro - Brazil)
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Dear Tomas, Thank you very much for dealing with this issue. You said: "I've committed a fix to R-devel, 82368". It happens that, at this very moment (Monday 16 May 18:44 UTC), The R-devel that exists on both the Austria and the 0-Cloud CRAN pages is this, with a different (smaller) number: This is a Windows 64 bit binary build of the 2022-05-15 r82362 development snapshot of R Anyway, I installed and tried this R-devel r82362, and Dasher does not work with it. I am not able to find R-Devel 82368 on the CRAN site. Maybe I should wait a little more. Or maybe you could send me a proper link to that. Best regards, Paulo Barata ----------------------------------------------------------
On 16/05/2022 14:08, Tomas Kalibera wrote:
On 5/15/22 16:10, Paulo Barata wrote:
To the R developers, I noticed today that R 4.2.0 responds to the "Enter" character of Dasher version 5.0.0 beta in "Direct Entry" mode. An "Enter" in Dasher causes the R prompt to jump to the next line, as an "Enter" should do. No other characters (letters, digits, special characters like + = & ~ | # $) are accepted by R 4.2.0 through Dasher. The "Enter" shows that, somehow, the communication between Dasher and R 4.2.0 through the Windows system is not completely curtailed.
Dear Paulo, thanks for the report and thanks to all for the useful comments in the followup discussion. I've committed a fix to R-devel, 82368, and I would be grateful if you could test whether it fixes the problem for you. I've tested it only on a small example which is using the same method to insert keys to Rgui as Dasher does. The problem is caused by a limitation in GraphApp, a library used by Rgui and included in the R distribution. GraphApp has two modes: Unicode windows (with this limitation) and non-Unicode windows (without it). GraphApp uses Unicode windows when running in a multi-byte locale, and as of R 4.2, this is the case for all systems on recent Windows where the native encoding is UTF-8. This means that most likely R 4.1.3 didn't work with Dasher on systems running in a multi-byte locale and that most likely R 4.2.0 would work with Dasher on old Windows systems (where UTF-8 cannot be used as native encoding). Dasher uses SendInput/KEYEVENTF_UNICODE to inject text into Rgui, which is fine as far as I can tell and should work. It didn't work, because the Unicode windows didn't handle WM_CHAR nor WM_KEYDOWN/WM_KEYUP for VK_PACKET. By design, Unicode windows get input via WM_IME_COMPOSITION and WM_KEYDOWN, so I've added support for VK_PACKET to WM_KEYDOWN (taking the logic in gdk as an example). I am cc'ing Jose as Tinn-R has a similar problem, though this patch doesn't solve it. Best Tomas
Regards, Paulo Barata ---------------------------------------------------------- On 13/05/2022 16:44, Paulo Barata wrote:
To the R developers, I would like to point out an issue that occurs with the new R 4.2.0 running on Windows; this is possibly related to the recent wide changes made to the Windows port of R. The issue has to do with writing of the R window. My computer runs on Windows 10 Professional 64-bit with all the latest updates, and has a 4-core 8-thread Intel Xeon processor with 32 Gb of RAM. I have some slight impairment in my hands, so for typing I avoid using the computer keyboard as much as possible. For most of my typing, I use the software Dasher, a kind of assistive technology software. Dasher was created by the Inference Group led by Professor David MacKay (died in 2016) at Cambridge University in England. Later, Dasher was further developed by Ada Majorek (a Google engineer, recently deceased). General information on Dasher and about the Dasher Project can be found on the Inference Group page: http://www.inference.org.uk/dasher/ An example of Dasher in action can be seen on this 2-minute YouTube video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nr3s4613DX8 An one-hour YouTube video of a 2007 Google Talk by Professor MacKay himself explaining the Dasher concept can be found here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wpOxbesRNBc In the 2-minute video (the first YouTube address above), the sentence written through Dasher, for actual use, needs to be copied and then pasted into another software, say a text editor. But Dasher also has a "Direct Entry" mode, where words typed are entered directly on the screen of the text editor or other software -- this is how I use Dasher to write on the R window. Using Dasher`s "Direct Entry" mode, for all effects, to write a word through Dasher works exactly like writing the word through the normal computer keyboard. Somehow (I do not know about system programming), in "Direct Entry" mode, the output of Dasher is understood by the computer as an input of the same nature as a keyboard input. But this is the issue: until R 4.1.3, R accepted normally the word-typing through Dasher. But R 4.2.0 (and R 4.2.0-patched build r82348, 12 May 2022) does not accept Dasher anymore. So, for now, if I wish to use R during some extended interactive section (say, for a first look at a complex data set), and if I wish to use Dasher for this interactive session, then I have to use R 4.1.3. For using R through programming, I can use the new R 4.2.0, by writing the program with Dasher in my text editor, and then pasting that program into R. The latest Windows version of Dasher, version 5.0.0 beta, works perfectly well with text editors (I use EditPad Pro), with Microsoft-like Office packages (I use SoftMaker Office), for writing e-mails (I use Mozilla Thunderbird), for writing on a web page (I use mostly Mozilla Firefox). It worked perfectly well with R up to version 4.1.3, but it does not work with R 4.2.0 The latest Dasher 5.0.0 beta Windows installer and the source code can be found on this page below (please click on "Windows installer" and on "source code", just below the head "Dasher 5.0 beta release"): https://github.com/dasher-project/dasher/releases To set Dasher 5.0.0 beta to the "Direct Entry" mode, after installing Dasher one should go to Preferences > Application > Application Style. Currently, after the passing of Ada Majorek, the Dasher Project is being put forward by a group of people in England, but, it seems, at a very slow pace. They have announced the existence of a version 6 beta, but this is only an online instance of Dasher, there is no Windows installer, as far as I know. Their web page: https://dasher.acecentre.net/ For me, and possibly for other users, the Dasher version 5.0.0 beta for Windows that is available works perfectly well, and allows me to use the computer with a proficiency that would be hardly possible otherwise. Here I request that the R developers take a look at this word-typing issue that happens with the new R 4.2.0 on Windows. As an R user (I work in ecological research), I can only thank the R team for this really wonderful piece of statistical software that you make freely available to us all. Regards, Paulo Barata (Rio de Janeiro - Brazil)
______________________________________________ R-devel at r-project.org mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-devel
______________________________________________ R-devel at r-project.org mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-devel
On 5/16/22 19:45, Paulo Barata wrote:
Dear Tomas, Thank you very much for dealing with this issue. You said: "I've committed a fix to R-devel, 82368". It happens that, at this very moment (Monday 16 May 18:44 UTC), The R-devel that exists on both the Austria and the 0-Cloud CRAN pages is this, with a different (smaller) number: This is a Windows 64 bit binary build of the 2022-05-15 r82362 development snapshot of R Anyway, I installed and tried this R-devel r82362, and Dasher does not work with it. I am not able to find R-Devel 82368 on the CRAN site. Maybe I should wait a little more. Or maybe you could send me a proper link to that.
Thanks, Paulo, yes,? it needs to be a version >= 82368 (and it may take several hours to appear), but at least you have now a baseline negative test using R-devel. Best Tomas
Best regards, Paulo Barata ---------------------------------------------------------- On 16/05/2022 14:08, Tomas Kalibera wrote:
On 5/15/22 16:10, Paulo Barata wrote:
To the R developers, I noticed today that R 4.2.0 responds to the "Enter" character of Dasher version 5.0.0 beta in "Direct Entry" mode. An "Enter" in Dasher causes the R prompt to jump to the next line, as an "Enter" should do. No other characters (letters, digits, special characters like + = & ~ | # $) are accepted by R 4.2.0 through Dasher. The "Enter" shows that, somehow, the communication between Dasher and R 4.2.0 through the Windows system is not completely curtailed.
Dear Paulo, thanks for the report and thanks to all for the useful comments in the followup discussion. I've committed a fix to R-devel, 82368, and I would be grateful if you could test whether it fixes the problem for you. I've tested it only on a small example which is using the same method to insert keys to Rgui as Dasher does. The problem is caused by a limitation in GraphApp, a library used by Rgui and included in the R distribution. GraphApp has two modes: Unicode windows (with this limitation) and non-Unicode windows (without it). GraphApp uses Unicode windows when running in a multi-byte locale, and as of R 4.2, this is the case for all systems on recent Windows where the native encoding is UTF-8. This means that most likely R 4.1.3 didn't work with Dasher on systems running in a multi-byte locale and that most likely R 4.2.0 would work with Dasher on old Windows systems (where UTF-8 cannot be used as native encoding). Dasher uses SendInput/KEYEVENTF_UNICODE to inject text into Rgui, which is fine as far as I can tell and should work. It didn't work, because the Unicode windows didn't handle WM_CHAR nor WM_KEYDOWN/WM_KEYUP for VK_PACKET. By design, Unicode windows get input via WM_IME_COMPOSITION and WM_KEYDOWN, so I've added support for VK_PACKET to WM_KEYDOWN (taking the logic in gdk as an example). I am cc'ing Jose as Tinn-R has a similar problem, though this patch doesn't solve it. Best Tomas
Regards, Paulo Barata ---------------------------------------------------------- On 13/05/2022 16:44, Paulo Barata wrote:
To the R developers, I would like to point out an issue that occurs with the new R 4.2.0 running on Windows; this is possibly related to the recent wide changes made to the Windows port of R. The issue has to do with writing of the R window. My computer runs on Windows 10 Professional 64-bit with all the latest updates, and has a 4-core 8-thread Intel Xeon processor with 32 Gb of RAM. I have some slight impairment in my hands, so for typing I avoid using the computer keyboard as much as possible. For most of my typing, I use the software Dasher, a kind of assistive technology software. Dasher was created by the Inference Group led by Professor David MacKay (died in 2016) at Cambridge University in England. Later, Dasher was further developed by Ada Majorek (a Google engineer, recently deceased). General information on Dasher and about the Dasher Project can be found on the Inference Group page: http://www.inference.org.uk/dasher/ An example of Dasher in action can be seen on this 2-minute YouTube video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nr3s4613DX8 An one-hour YouTube video of a 2007 Google Talk by Professor MacKay himself explaining the Dasher concept can be found here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wpOxbesRNBc In the 2-minute video (the first YouTube address above), the sentence written through Dasher, for actual use, needs to be copied and then pasted into another software, say a text editor. But Dasher also has a "Direct Entry" mode, where words typed are entered directly on the screen of the text editor or other software -- this is how I use Dasher to write on the R window. Using Dasher`s "Direct Entry" mode, for all effects, to write a word through Dasher works exactly like writing the word through the normal computer keyboard. Somehow (I do not know about system programming), in "Direct Entry" mode, the output of Dasher is understood by the computer as an input of the same nature as a keyboard input. But this is the issue: until R 4.1.3, R accepted normally the word-typing through Dasher. But R 4.2.0 (and R 4.2.0-patched build r82348, 12 May 2022) does not accept Dasher anymore. So, for now, if I wish to use R during some extended interactive section (say, for a first look at a complex data set), and if I wish to use Dasher for this interactive session, then I have to use R 4.1.3. For using R through programming, I can use the new R 4.2.0, by writing the program with Dasher in my text editor, and then pasting that program into R. The latest Windows version of Dasher, version 5.0.0 beta, works perfectly well with text editors (I use EditPad Pro), with Microsoft-like Office packages (I use SoftMaker Office), for writing e-mails (I use Mozilla Thunderbird), for writing on a web page (I use mostly Mozilla Firefox). It worked perfectly well with R up to version 4.1.3, but it does not work with R 4.2.0 The latest Dasher 5.0.0 beta Windows installer and the source code can be found on this page below (please click on "Windows installer" and on "source code", just below the head "Dasher 5.0 beta release"): https://github.com/dasher-project/dasher/releases To set Dasher 5.0.0 beta to the "Direct Entry" mode, after installing Dasher one should go to Preferences > Application > Application Style. Currently, after the passing of Ada Majorek, the Dasher Project is being put forward by a group of people in England, but, it seems, at a very slow pace. They have announced the existence of a version 6 beta, but this is only an online instance of Dasher, there is no Windows installer, as far as I know. Their web page: https://dasher.acecentre.net/ For me, and possibly for other users, the Dasher version 5.0.0 beta for Windows that is available works perfectly well, and allows me to use the computer with a proficiency that would be hardly possible otherwise. Here I request that the R developers take a look at this word-typing issue that happens with the new R 4.2.0 on Windows. As an R user (I work in ecological research), I can only thank the R team for this really wonderful piece of statistical software that you make freely available to us all. Regards, Paulo Barata (Rio de Janeiro - Brazil)
______________________________________________ R-devel at r-project.org mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-devel
______________________________________________ R-devel at r-project.org mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-devel
You'll probably have to wait a day or so for a new build. The Windows binaries are only built once a day or so. https://cran.r-project.org/bin/windows/base/rdevel.html was built on 2022-05-15. Tomas's fix was only committed an hour ago: https://github.com/wch/r-source/commit/9b6de510e6346da7ccb582d14a7699500751efc4 If you're really eager you can install Subversion and build from source <https://developer.r-project.org/SVNtips.html> (or clone the Github mirror etc.). cheers Ben Bolker
On 2022-05-16 1:45 p.m., Paulo Barata wrote:
Dear Tomas, Thank you very much for dealing with this issue. You said: "I've committed a fix to R-devel, 82368". It happens that, at this very moment (Monday 16 May 18:44 UTC), The R-devel that exists on both the Austria and the 0-Cloud CRAN pages is this, with a different (smaller) number: This is a Windows 64 bit binary build of the 2022-05-15 r82362 development snapshot of R Anyway, I installed and tried this R-devel r82362, and Dasher does not work with it. I am not able to find R-Devel 82368 on the CRAN site. Maybe I should wait a little more. Or maybe you could send me a proper link to that.
Best regards, Paulo Barata ---------------------------------------------------------- On 16/05/2022 14:08, Tomas Kalibera wrote:
On 5/15/22 16:10, Paulo Barata wrote:
To the R developers, I noticed today that R 4.2.0 responds to the "Enter" character of Dasher version 5.0.0 beta in "Direct Entry" mode. An "Enter" in Dasher causes the R prompt to jump to the next line, as an "Enter" should do. No other characters (letters, digits, special characters like + = & ~ | # $) are accepted by R 4.2.0 through Dasher. The "Enter" shows that, somehow, the communication between Dasher and R 4.2.0 through the Windows system is not completely curtailed.
Dear Paulo, thanks for the report and thanks to all for the useful comments in the followup discussion. I've committed a fix to R-devel, 82368, and I would be grateful if you could test whether it fixes the problem for you. I've tested it only on a small example which is using the same method to insert keys to Rgui as Dasher does. The problem is caused by a limitation in GraphApp, a library used by Rgui and included in the R distribution. GraphApp has two modes: Unicode windows (with this limitation) and non-Unicode windows (without it). GraphApp uses Unicode windows when running in a multi-byte locale, and as of R 4.2, this is the case for all systems on recent Windows where the native encoding is UTF-8. This means that most likely R 4.1.3 didn't work with Dasher on systems running in a multi-byte locale and that most likely R 4.2.0 would work with Dasher on old Windows systems (where UTF-8 cannot be used as native encoding). Dasher uses SendInput/KEYEVENTF_UNICODE to inject text into Rgui, which is fine as far as I can tell and should work. It didn't work, because the Unicode windows didn't handle WM_CHAR nor WM_KEYDOWN/WM_KEYUP for VK_PACKET. By design, Unicode windows get input via WM_IME_COMPOSITION and WM_KEYDOWN, so I've added support for VK_PACKET to WM_KEYDOWN (taking the logic in gdk as an example). I am cc'ing Jose as Tinn-R has a similar problem, though this patch doesn't solve it. Best Tomas
Regards, Paulo Barata ---------------------------------------------------------- On 13/05/2022 16:44, Paulo Barata wrote:
To the R developers, I would like to point out an issue that occurs with the new R 4.2.0 running on Windows; this is possibly related to the recent wide changes made to the Windows port of R. The issue has to do with writing of the R window. My computer runs on Windows 10 Professional 64-bit with all the latest updates, and has a 4-core 8-thread Intel Xeon processor with 32 Gb of RAM. I have some slight impairment in my hands, so for typing I avoid using the computer keyboard as much as possible. For most of my typing, I use the software Dasher, a kind of assistive technology software. Dasher was created by the Inference Group led by Professor David MacKay (died in 2016) at Cambridge University in England. Later, Dasher was further developed by Ada Majorek (a Google engineer, recently deceased). General information on Dasher and about the Dasher Project can be found on the Inference Group page: http://www.inference.org.uk/dasher/ An example of Dasher in action can be seen on this 2-minute YouTube video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nr3s4613DX8 An one-hour YouTube video of a 2007 Google Talk by Professor MacKay himself explaining the Dasher concept can be found here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wpOxbesRNBc In the 2-minute video (the first YouTube address above), the sentence written through Dasher, for actual use, needs to be copied and then pasted into another software, say a text editor. But Dasher also has a "Direct Entry" mode, where words typed are entered directly on the screen of the text editor or other software -- this is how I use Dasher to write on the R window. Using Dasher`s "Direct Entry" mode, for all effects, to write a word through Dasher works exactly like writing the word through the normal computer keyboard. Somehow (I do not know about system programming), in "Direct Entry" mode, the output of Dasher is understood by the computer as an input of the same nature as a keyboard input. But this is the issue: until R 4.1.3, R accepted normally the word-typing through Dasher. But R 4.2.0 (and R 4.2.0-patched build r82348, 12 May 2022) does not accept Dasher anymore. So, for now, if I wish to use R during some extended interactive section (say, for a first look at a complex data set), and if I wish to use Dasher for this interactive session, then I have to use R 4.1.3. For using R through programming, I can use the new R 4.2.0, by writing the program with Dasher in my text editor, and then pasting that program into R. The latest Windows version of Dasher, version 5.0.0 beta, works perfectly well with text editors (I use EditPad Pro), with Microsoft-like Office packages (I use SoftMaker Office), for writing e-mails (I use Mozilla Thunderbird), for writing on a web page (I use mostly Mozilla Firefox). It worked perfectly well with R up to version 4.1.3, but it does not work with R 4.2.0 The latest Dasher 5.0.0 beta Windows installer and the source code can be found on this page below (please click on "Windows installer" and on "source code", just below the head "Dasher 5.0 beta release"): https://github.com/dasher-project/dasher/releases To set Dasher 5.0.0 beta to the "Direct Entry" mode, after installing Dasher one should go to Preferences > Application > Application Style. Currently, after the passing of Ada Majorek, the Dasher Project is being put forward by a group of people in England, but, it seems, at a very slow pace. They have announced the existence of a version 6 beta, but this is only an online instance of Dasher, there is no Windows installer, as far as I know. Their web page: https://dasher.acecentre.net/ For me, and possibly for other users, the Dasher version 5.0.0 beta for Windows that is available works perfectly well, and allows me to use the computer with a proficiency that would be hardly possible otherwise. Here I request that the R developers take a look at this word-typing issue that happens with the new R 4.2.0 on Windows. As an R user (I work in ecological research), I can only thank the R team for this really wonderful piece of statistical software that you make freely available to us all. Regards, Paulo Barata (Rio de Janeiro - Brazil)
______________________________________________ R-devel at r-project.org mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-devel
______________________________________________ R-devel at r-project.org mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-devel
______________________________________________ R-devel at r-project.org mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-devel
Dr. Benjamin Bolker Professor, Mathematics & Statistics and Biology, McMaster University Director, School of Computational Science and Engineering (Acting) Graduate chair, Mathematics & Statistics
On 16/05/2022 1:51 p.m., Ben Bolker wrote:
You'll probably have to wait a day or so for a new build. The Windows binaries are only built once a day or so.
They appear first at https://cran.r-project.org/bin/windows/base/rdevel.html and are mirrored to other sites later. Duncan Murdoch
https://cran.r-project.org/bin/windows/base/rdevel.html was built on 2022-05-15. Tomas's fix was only committed an hour ago: https://github.com/wch/r-source/commit/9b6de510e6346da7ccb582d14a7699500751efc4 If you're really eager you can install Subversion and build from source <https://developer.r-project.org/SVNtips.html> (or clone the Github mirror etc.). cheers Ben Bolker On 2022-05-16 1:45 p.m., Paulo Barata wrote:
Dear Tomas, Thank you very much for dealing with this issue. You said: "I've committed a fix to R-devel, 82368". It happens that, at this very moment (Monday 16 May 18:44 UTC), The R-devel that exists on both the Austria and the 0-Cloud CRAN pages is this, with a different (smaller) number: This is a Windows 64 bit binary build of the 2022-05-15 r82362 development snapshot of R Anyway, I installed and tried this R-devel r82362, and Dasher does not work with it. I am not able to find R-Devel 82368 on the CRAN site. Maybe I should wait a little more. Or maybe you could send me a proper link to that.
Best regards, Paulo Barata ---------------------------------------------------------- On 16/05/2022 14:08, Tomas Kalibera wrote:
On 5/15/22 16:10, Paulo Barata wrote:
To the R developers, I noticed today that R 4.2.0 responds to the "Enter" character of Dasher version 5.0.0 beta in "Direct Entry" mode. An "Enter" in Dasher causes the R prompt to jump to the next line, as an "Enter" should do. No other characters (letters, digits, special characters like + = & ~ | # $) are accepted by R 4.2.0 through Dasher. The "Enter" shows that, somehow, the communication between Dasher and R 4.2.0 through the Windows system is not completely curtailed.
Dear Paulo, thanks for the report and thanks to all for the useful comments in the followup discussion. I've committed a fix to R-devel, 82368, and I would be grateful if you could test whether it fixes the problem for you. I've tested it only on a small example which is using the same method to insert keys to Rgui as Dasher does. The problem is caused by a limitation in GraphApp, a library used by Rgui and included in the R distribution. GraphApp has two modes: Unicode windows (with this limitation) and non-Unicode windows (without it). GraphApp uses Unicode windows when running in a multi-byte locale, and as of R 4.2, this is the case for all systems on recent Windows where the native encoding is UTF-8. This means that most likely R 4.1.3 didn't work with Dasher on systems running in a multi-byte locale and that most likely R 4.2.0 would work with Dasher on old Windows systems (where UTF-8 cannot be used as native encoding). Dasher uses SendInput/KEYEVENTF_UNICODE to inject text into Rgui, which is fine as far as I can tell and should work. It didn't work, because the Unicode windows didn't handle WM_CHAR nor WM_KEYDOWN/WM_KEYUP for VK_PACKET. By design, Unicode windows get input via WM_IME_COMPOSITION and WM_KEYDOWN, so I've added support for VK_PACKET to WM_KEYDOWN (taking the logic in gdk as an example). I am cc'ing Jose as Tinn-R has a similar problem, though this patch doesn't solve it. Best Tomas
Regards, Paulo Barata ---------------------------------------------------------- On 13/05/2022 16:44, Paulo Barata wrote:
To the R developers, I would like to point out an issue that occurs with the new R 4.2.0 running on Windows; this is possibly related to the recent wide changes made to the Windows port of R. The issue has to do with writing of the R window. My computer runs on Windows 10 Professional 64-bit with all the latest updates, and has a 4-core 8-thread Intel Xeon processor with 32 Gb of RAM. I have some slight impairment in my hands, so for typing I avoid using the computer keyboard as much as possible. For most of my typing, I use the software Dasher, a kind of assistive technology software. Dasher was created by the Inference Group led by Professor David MacKay (died in 2016) at Cambridge University in England. Later, Dasher was further developed by Ada Majorek (a Google engineer, recently deceased). General information on Dasher and about the Dasher Project can be found on the Inference Group page: http://www.inference.org.uk/dasher/ An example of Dasher in action can be seen on this 2-minute YouTube video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nr3s4613DX8 An one-hour YouTube video of a 2007 Google Talk by Professor MacKay himself explaining the Dasher concept can be found here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wpOxbesRNBc In the 2-minute video (the first YouTube address above), the sentence written through Dasher, for actual use, needs to be copied and then pasted into another software, say a text editor. But Dasher also has a "Direct Entry" mode, where words typed are entered directly on the screen of the text editor or other software -- this is how I use Dasher to write on the R window. Using Dasher`s "Direct Entry" mode, for all effects, to write a word through Dasher works exactly like writing the word through the normal computer keyboard. Somehow (I do not know about system programming), in "Direct Entry" mode, the output of Dasher is understood by the computer as an input of the same nature as a keyboard input. But this is the issue: until R 4.1.3, R accepted normally the word-typing through Dasher. But R 4.2.0 (and R 4.2.0-patched build r82348, 12 May 2022) does not accept Dasher anymore. So, for now, if I wish to use R during some extended interactive section (say, for a first look at a complex data set), and if I wish to use Dasher for this interactive session, then I have to use R 4.1.3. For using R through programming, I can use the new R 4.2.0, by writing the program with Dasher in my text editor, and then pasting that program into R. The latest Windows version of Dasher, version 5.0.0 beta, works perfectly well with text editors (I use EditPad Pro), with Microsoft-like Office packages (I use SoftMaker Office), for writing e-mails (I use Mozilla Thunderbird), for writing on a web page (I use mostly Mozilla Firefox). It worked perfectly well with R up to version 4.1.3, but it does not work with R 4.2.0 The latest Dasher 5.0.0 beta Windows installer and the source code can be found on this page below (please click on "Windows installer" and on "source code", just below the head "Dasher 5.0 beta release"): https://github.com/dasher-project/dasher/releases To set Dasher 5.0.0 beta to the "Direct Entry" mode, after installing Dasher one should go to Preferences > Application > Application Style. Currently, after the passing of Ada Majorek, the Dasher Project is being put forward by a group of people in England, but, it seems, at a very slow pace. They have announced the existence of a version 6 beta, but this is only an online instance of Dasher, there is no Windows installer, as far as I know. Their web page: https://dasher.acecentre.net/ For me, and possibly for other users, the Dasher version 5.0.0 beta for Windows that is available works perfectly well, and allows me to use the computer with a proficiency that would be hardly possible otherwise. Here I request that the R developers take a look at this word-typing issue that happens with the new R 4.2.0 on Windows. As an R user (I work in ecological research), I can only thank the R team for this really wonderful piece of statistical software that you make freely available to us all. Regards, Paulo Barata (Rio de Janeiro - Brazil)
______________________________________________ R-devel at r-project.org mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-devel
______________________________________________ R-devel at r-project.org mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-devel
______________________________________________ R-devel at r-project.org mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-devel
Dear Tomas, Great news! I downloaded R-devel 2022-05-16 r82368 for Windows and installed it on my Windows 10 Professional. It works perfectly well with Dasher 5.0 beta! In Dasher, I tried all special characters like $ & | *, many small and capital letters, including some accented ones like ? ? ? ? that exist in Portuguese (and other languages, e.g. French (there are versions of Dasher for many languages)), all digits, space, the Enter character and the "Backspace" movement (to erase previously written characters), everything works well. Now, we can fully use Dasher in the R console. It seems that we cannot yet normally install packages in this R-devel r82368. So I look forward to the day when a stable R 4.3.0 will be available. Meanwhile, for my ecological work, I can use R perfectly well with the versions 4.1.3 and 4.2.0 that I have here, so, from my viewpoint, this R 4.3.0 can take its time to come to light. I can only thank you very much, and all the other people who took part in this discussion, for the quick fix to this issue. Best regards, Paulo Barata (Rio de Janeiro - Brazil) ----------------------------------------------------------
On 16/05/2022 14:08, Tomas Kalibera wrote:
On 5/15/22 16:10, Paulo Barata wrote:
To the R developers, I noticed today that R 4.2.0 responds to the "Enter" character of Dasher version 5.0.0 beta in "Direct Entry" mode. An "Enter" in Dasher causes the R prompt to jump to the next line, as an "Enter" should do. No other characters (letters, digits, special characters like + = & ~ | # $) are accepted by R 4.2.0 through Dasher. The "Enter" shows that, somehow, the communication between Dasher and R 4.2.0 through the Windows system is not completely curtailed.
Dear Paulo, thanks for the report and thanks to all for the useful comments in the followup discussion. I've committed a fix to R-devel, 82368, and I would be grateful if you could test whether it fixes the problem for you. I've tested it only on a small example which is using the same method to insert keys to Rgui as Dasher does. The problem is caused by a limitation in GraphApp, a library used by Rgui and included in the R distribution. GraphApp has two modes: Unicode windows (with this limitation) and non-Unicode windows (without it). GraphApp uses Unicode windows when running in a multi-byte locale, and as of R 4.2, this is the case for all systems on recent Windows where the native encoding is UTF-8. This means that most likely R 4.1.3 didn't work with Dasher on systems running in a multi-byte locale and that most likely R 4.2.0 would work with Dasher on old Windows systems (where UTF-8 cannot be used as native encoding). Dasher uses SendInput/KEYEVENTF_UNICODE to inject text into Rgui, which is fine as far as I can tell and should work. It didn't work, because the Unicode windows didn't handle WM_CHAR nor WM_KEYDOWN/WM_KEYUP for VK_PACKET. By design, Unicode windows get input via WM_IME_COMPOSITION and WM_KEYDOWN, so I've added support for VK_PACKET to WM_KEYDOWN (taking the logic in gdk as an example). I am cc'ing Jose as Tinn-R has a similar problem, though this patch doesn't solve it. Best Tomas
Regards, Paulo Barata ---------------------------------------------------------- On 13/05/2022 16:44, Paulo Barata wrote:
To the R developers, I would like to point out an issue that occurs with the new R 4.2.0 running on Windows; this is possibly related to the recent wide changes made to the Windows port of R. The issue has to do with writing of the R window. My computer runs on Windows 10 Professional 64-bit with all the latest updates, and has a 4-core 8-thread Intel Xeon processor with 32 Gb of RAM. I have some slight impairment in my hands, so for typing I avoid using the computer keyboard as much as possible. For most of my typing, I use the software Dasher, a kind of assistive technology software. Dasher was created by the Inference Group led by Professor David MacKay (died in 2016) at Cambridge University in England. Later, Dasher was further developed by Ada Majorek (a Google engineer, recently deceased). General information on Dasher and about the Dasher Project can be found on the Inference Group page: http://www.inference.org.uk/dasher/ An example of Dasher in action can be seen on this 2-minute YouTube video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nr3s4613DX8 An one-hour YouTube video of a 2007 Google Talk by Professor MacKay himself explaining the Dasher concept can be found here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wpOxbesRNBc In the 2-minute video (the first YouTube address above), the sentence written through Dasher, for actual use, needs to be copied and then pasted into another software, say a text editor. But Dasher also has a "Direct Entry" mode, where words typed are entered directly on the screen of the text editor or other software -- this is how I use Dasher to write on the R window. Using Dasher`s "Direct Entry" mode, for all effects, to write a word through Dasher works exactly like writing the word through the normal computer keyboard. Somehow (I do not know about system programming), in "Direct Entry" mode, the output of Dasher is understood by the computer as an input of the same nature as a keyboard input. But this is the issue: until R 4.1.3, R accepted normally the word-typing through Dasher. But R 4.2.0 (and R 4.2.0-patched build r82348, 12 May 2022) does not accept Dasher anymore. So, for now, if I wish to use R during some extended interactive section (say, for a first look at a complex data set), and if I wish to use Dasher for this interactive session, then I have to use R 4.1.3. For using R through programming, I can use the new R 4.2.0, by writing the program with Dasher in my text editor, and then pasting that program into R. The latest Windows version of Dasher, version 5.0.0 beta, works perfectly well with text editors (I use EditPad Pro), with Microsoft-like Office packages (I use SoftMaker Office), for writing e-mails (I use Mozilla Thunderbird), for writing on a web page (I use mostly Mozilla Firefox). It worked perfectly well with R up to version 4.1.3, but it does not work with R 4.2.0 The latest Dasher 5.0.0 beta Windows installer and the source code can be found on this page below (please click on "Windows installer" and on "source code", just below the head "Dasher 5.0 beta release"): https://github.com/dasher-project/dasher/releases To set Dasher 5.0.0 beta to the "Direct Entry" mode, after installing Dasher one should go to Preferences > Application > Application Style. Currently, after the passing of Ada Majorek, the Dasher Project is being put forward by a group of people in England, but, it seems, at a very slow pace. They have announced the existence of a version 6 beta, but this is only an online instance of Dasher, there is no Windows installer, as far as I know. Their web page: https://dasher.acecentre.net/ For me, and possibly for other users, the Dasher version 5.0.0 beta for Windows that is available works perfectly well, and allows me to use the computer with a proficiency that would be hardly possible otherwise. Here I request that the R developers take a look at this word-typing issue that happens with the new R 4.2.0 on Windows. As an R user (I work in ecological research), I can only thank the R team for this really wonderful piece of statistical software that you make freely available to us all. Regards, Paulo Barata (Rio de Janeiro - Brazil)
______________________________________________ R-devel at r-project.org mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-devel
______________________________________________ R-devel at r-project.org mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-devel
Dear Paulo,
On 5/17/22 15:04, Paulo Barata wrote:
Dear Tomas, Great news! I downloaded R-devel 2022-05-16 r82368 for Windows and installed it on my Windows 10 Professional. It works perfectly well with Dasher 5.0 beta! In Dasher, I tried all special characters like $ & | *, many small and capital letters, including some accented ones like ? ? ? ? that exist in Portuguese (and other languages, e.g. French (there are versions of Dasher for many languages)), all digits, space, the Enter character and the "Backspace" movement (to erase previously written characters), everything works well. Now, we can fully use Dasher in the R console.
I am happy it works again, thanks for the testing and the report. I've ported the fix to R-patched, which means it will appear in R 4.2.1.
It seems that we cannot yet normally install packages in this R-devel r82368. So I look forward to the day when a stable R 4.3.0 will be available. Meanwhile, for my ecological work, I can use R perfectly well with the versions 4.1.3 and 4.2.0 that I have here, so, from my viewpoint, this R 4.3.0 can take its time to come to light.
R 4.3.0 will be released probably around next April, but R 4.2.1 much sooner (expect in 1-3 months, though this hasn't been scheduled, yet). Before that, you should be able to use an R-patched snapshot build available from https://cran.r-project.org/bin/windows/base/rpatched.html but only after the build is of release >= 82371 (which should happen by tomorrow - the page shows the revision number). R-patched is R 4.2.0 with updates that will eventually become 4.2.1, so should be more stable than R-devel is now (to become 4.3.0 around next April). If you have any problems with installing packages in either version of R, please report, so that someone can help or indeed if there is a bug, it could be fixed.
I can only thank you very much, and all the other people who took part in this discussion, for the quick fix to this issue.
Thank you for the report. Without it, the problem wouldn't have been fixed. Best Tomas
Best regards, Paulo Barata (Rio de Janeiro - Brazil) ---------------------------------------------------------- On 16/05/2022 14:08, Tomas Kalibera wrote:
On 5/15/22 16:10, Paulo Barata wrote:
To the R developers, I noticed today that R 4.2.0 responds to the "Enter" character of Dasher version 5.0.0 beta in "Direct Entry" mode. An "Enter" in Dasher causes the R prompt to jump to the next line, as an "Enter" should do. No other characters (letters, digits, special characters like + = & ~ | # $) are accepted by R 4.2.0 through Dasher. The "Enter" shows that, somehow, the communication between Dasher and R 4.2.0 through the Windows system is not completely curtailed.
Dear Paulo, thanks for the report and thanks to all for the useful comments in the followup discussion. I've committed a fix to R-devel, 82368, and I would be grateful if you could test whether it fixes the problem for you. I've tested it only on a small example which is using the same method to insert keys to Rgui as Dasher does. The problem is caused by a limitation in GraphApp, a library used by Rgui and included in the R distribution. GraphApp has two modes: Unicode windows (with this limitation) and non-Unicode windows (without it). GraphApp uses Unicode windows when running in a multi-byte locale, and as of R 4.2, this is the case for all systems on recent Windows where the native encoding is UTF-8. This means that most likely R 4.1.3 didn't work with Dasher on systems running in a multi-byte locale and that most likely R 4.2.0 would work with Dasher on old Windows systems (where UTF-8 cannot be used as native encoding). Dasher uses SendInput/KEYEVENTF_UNICODE to inject text into Rgui, which is fine as far as I can tell and should work. It didn't work, because the Unicode windows didn't handle WM_CHAR nor WM_KEYDOWN/WM_KEYUP for VK_PACKET. By design, Unicode windows get input via WM_IME_COMPOSITION and WM_KEYDOWN, so I've added support for VK_PACKET to WM_KEYDOWN (taking the logic in gdk as an example). I am cc'ing Jose as Tinn-R has a similar problem, though this patch doesn't solve it. Best Tomas
Regards, Paulo Barata ---------------------------------------------------------- On 13/05/2022 16:44, Paulo Barata wrote:
To the R developers, I would like to point out an issue that occurs with the new R 4.2.0 running on Windows; this is possibly related to the recent wide changes made to the Windows port of R. The issue has to do with writing of the R window. My computer runs on Windows 10 Professional 64-bit with all the latest updates, and has a 4-core 8-thread Intel Xeon processor with 32 Gb of RAM. I have some slight impairment in my hands, so for typing I avoid using the computer keyboard as much as possible. For most of my typing, I use the software Dasher, a kind of assistive technology software. Dasher was created by the Inference Group led by Professor David MacKay (died in 2016) at Cambridge University in England. Later, Dasher was further developed by Ada Majorek (a Google engineer, recently deceased). General information on Dasher and about the Dasher Project can be found on the Inference Group page: http://www.inference.org.uk/dasher/ An example of Dasher in action can be seen on this 2-minute YouTube video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nr3s4613DX8 An one-hour YouTube video of a 2007 Google Talk by Professor MacKay himself explaining the Dasher concept can be found here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wpOxbesRNBc In the 2-minute video (the first YouTube address above), the sentence written through Dasher, for actual use, needs to be copied and then pasted into another software, say a text editor. But Dasher also has a "Direct Entry" mode, where words typed are entered directly on the screen of the text editor or other software -- this is how I use Dasher to write on the R window. Using Dasher`s "Direct Entry" mode, for all effects, to write a word through Dasher works exactly like writing the word through the normal computer keyboard. Somehow (I do not know about system programming), in "Direct Entry" mode, the output of Dasher is understood by the computer as an input of the same nature as a keyboard input. But this is the issue: until R 4.1.3, R accepted normally the word-typing through Dasher. But R 4.2.0 (and R 4.2.0-patched build r82348, 12 May 2022) does not accept Dasher anymore. So, for now, if I wish to use R during some extended interactive section (say, for a first look at a complex data set), and if I wish to use Dasher for this interactive session, then I have to use R 4.1.3. For using R through programming, I can use the new R 4.2.0, by writing the program with Dasher in my text editor, and then pasting that program into R. The latest Windows version of Dasher, version 5.0.0 beta, works perfectly well with text editors (I use EditPad Pro), with Microsoft-like Office packages (I use SoftMaker Office), for writing e-mails (I use Mozilla Thunderbird), for writing on a web page (I use mostly Mozilla Firefox). It worked perfectly well with R up to version 4.1.3, but it does not work with R 4.2.0 The latest Dasher 5.0.0 beta Windows installer and the source code can be found on this page below (please click on "Windows installer" and on "source code", just below the head "Dasher 5.0 beta release"): https://github.com/dasher-project/dasher/releases To set Dasher 5.0.0 beta to the "Direct Entry" mode, after installing Dasher one should go to Preferences > Application > Application Style. Currently, after the passing of Ada Majorek, the Dasher Project is being put forward by a group of people in England, but, it seems, at a very slow pace. They have announced the existence of a version 6 beta, but this is only an online instance of Dasher, there is no Windows installer, as far as I know. Their web page: https://dasher.acecentre.net/ For me, and possibly for other users, the Dasher version 5.0.0 beta for Windows that is available works perfectly well, and allows me to use the computer with a proficiency that would be hardly possible otherwise. Here I request that the R developers take a look at this word-typing issue that happens with the new R 4.2.0 on Windows. As an R user (I work in ecological research), I can only thank the R team for this really wonderful piece of statistical software that you make freely available to us all. Regards, Paulo Barata (Rio de Janeiro - Brazil)
______________________________________________ R-devel at r-project.org mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-devel
______________________________________________ R-devel at r-project.org mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-devel
Dear Tomas, Today, I installed R version 4.2.0 Patched (2022-05-17 r82371 ucrt) on my Windows 10 Professional. Dasher works perfectly well with that version of R. Again, using Dasher, I tried special symbols, letters (including accented ones), digits, space, the "Enter" character and the "Backspace" movement, and I wrote a range of commands in the R language, everything worked well. I could install some packages normally in that version of R, no problems. I think that the Dasher issue has been solved. I will use this R 4.2.0 Patched r82371 from now on. Again, thank you very much, and all the other people who took part in this discussion, for all your attention. Best regards, Paulo ----------------------------------------------------------
On 17/05/2022 10:45, Tomas Kalibera wrote:
Dear Paulo, On 5/17/22 15:04, Paulo Barata wrote:
Dear Tomas, Great news! I downloaded R-devel 2022-05-16 r82368 for Windows and installed it on my Windows 10 Professional. It works perfectly well with Dasher 5.0 beta! In Dasher, I tried all special characters like $ & | *, many small and capital letters, including some accented ones like ? ? ? ? that exist in Portuguese (and other languages, e.g. French (there are versions of Dasher for many languages)), all digits, space, the Enter character and the "Backspace" movement (to erase previously written characters), everything works well. Now, we can fully use Dasher in the R console.
I am happy it works again, thanks for the testing and the report. I've ported the fix to R-patched, which means it will appear in R 4.2.1.
It seems that we cannot yet normally install packages in this R-devel r82368. So I look forward to the day when a stable R 4.3.0 will be available. Meanwhile, for my ecological work, I can use R perfectly well with the versions 4.1.3 and 4.2.0 that I have here, so, from my viewpoint, this R 4.3.0 can take its time to come to light.
R 4.3.0 will be released probably around next April, but R 4.2.1 much sooner (expect in 1-3 months, though this hasn't been scheduled, yet). Before that, you should be able to use an R-patched snapshot build available from https://cran.r-project.org/bin/windows/base/rpatched.html but only after the build is of release >= 82371 (which should happen by tomorrow - the page shows the revision number). R-patched is R 4.2.0 with updates that will eventually become 4.2.1, so should be more stable than R-devel is now (to become 4.3.0 around next April). If you have any problems with installing packages in either version of R, please report, so that someone can help or indeed if there is a bug, it could be fixed.
I can only thank you very much, and all the other people who took part in this discussion, for the quick fix to this issue.
Thank you for the report. Without it, the problem wouldn't have been fixed. Best Tomas
Best regards, Paulo Barata (Rio de Janeiro - Brazil) ---------------------------------------------------------- On 16/05/2022 14:08, Tomas Kalibera wrote:
On 5/15/22 16:10, Paulo Barata wrote:
To the R developers, I noticed today that R 4.2.0 responds to the "Enter" character of Dasher version 5.0.0 beta in "Direct Entry" mode. An "Enter" in Dasher causes the R prompt to jump to the next line, as an "Enter" should do. No other characters (letters, digits, special characters like + = & ~ | # $) are accepted by R 4.2.0 through Dasher. The "Enter" shows that, somehow, the communication between Dasher and R 4.2.0 through the Windows system is not completely curtailed.
Dear Paulo, thanks for the report and thanks to all for the useful comments in the followup discussion. I've committed a fix to R-devel, 82368, and I would be grateful if you could test whether it fixes the problem for you. I've tested it only on a small example which is using the same method to insert keys to Rgui as Dasher does. The problem is caused by a limitation in GraphApp, a library used by Rgui and included in the R distribution. GraphApp has two modes: Unicode windows (with this limitation) and non-Unicode windows (without it). GraphApp uses Unicode windows when running in a multi-byte locale, and as of R 4.2, this is the case for all systems on recent Windows where the native encoding is UTF-8. This means that most likely R 4.1.3 didn't work with Dasher on systems running in a multi-byte locale and that most likely R 4.2.0 would work with Dasher on old Windows systems (where UTF-8 cannot be used as native encoding). Dasher uses SendInput/KEYEVENTF_UNICODE to inject text into Rgui, which is fine as far as I can tell and should work. It didn't work, because the Unicode windows didn't handle WM_CHAR nor WM_KEYDOWN/WM_KEYUP for VK_PACKET. By design, Unicode windows get input via WM_IME_COMPOSITION and WM_KEYDOWN, so I've added support for VK_PACKET to WM_KEYDOWN (taking the logic in gdk as an example). I am cc'ing Jose as Tinn-R has a similar problem, though this patch doesn't solve it. Best Tomas
Regards, Paulo Barata ---------------------------------------------------------- On 13/05/2022 16:44, Paulo Barata wrote:
To the R developers, I would like to point out an issue that occurs with the new R 4.2.0 running on Windows; this is possibly related to the recent wide changes made to the Windows port of R. The issue has to do with writing of the R window. My computer runs on Windows 10 Professional 64-bit with all the latest updates, and has a 4-core 8-thread Intel Xeon processor with 32 Gb of RAM. I have some slight impairment in my hands, so for typing I avoid using the computer keyboard as much as possible. For most of my typing, I use the software Dasher, a kind of assistive technology software. Dasher was created by the Inference Group led by Professor David MacKay (died in 2016) at Cambridge University in England. Later, Dasher was further developed by Ada Majorek (a Google engineer, recently deceased). General information on Dasher and about the Dasher Project can be found on the Inference Group page: http://www.inference.org.uk/dasher/ An example of Dasher in action can be seen on this 2-minute YouTube video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nr3s4613DX8 An one-hour YouTube video of a 2007 Google Talk by Professor MacKay himself explaining the Dasher concept can be found here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wpOxbesRNBc In the 2-minute video (the first YouTube address above), the sentence written through Dasher, for actual use, needs to be copied and then pasted into another software, say a text editor. But Dasher also has a "Direct Entry" mode, where words typed are entered directly on the screen of the text editor or other software -- this is how I use Dasher to write on the R window. Using Dasher`s "Direct Entry" mode, for all effects, to write a word through Dasher works exactly like writing the word through the normal computer keyboard. Somehow (I do not know about system programming), in "Direct Entry" mode, the output of Dasher is understood by the computer as an input of the same nature as a keyboard input. But this is the issue: until R 4.1.3, R accepted normally the word-typing through Dasher. But R 4.2.0 (and R 4.2.0-patched build r82348, 12 May 2022) does not accept Dasher anymore. So, for now, if I wish to use R during some extended interactive section (say, for a first look at a complex data set), and if I wish to use Dasher for this interactive session, then I have to use R 4.1.3. For using R through programming, I can use the new R 4.2.0, by writing the program with Dasher in my text editor, and then pasting that program into R. The latest Windows version of Dasher, version 5.0.0 beta, works perfectly well with text editors (I use EditPad Pro), with Microsoft-like Office packages (I use SoftMaker Office), for writing e-mails (I use Mozilla Thunderbird), for writing on a web page (I use mostly Mozilla Firefox). It worked perfectly well with R up to version 4.1.3, but it does not work with R 4.2.0 The latest Dasher 5.0.0 beta Windows installer and the source code can be found on this page below (please click on "Windows installer" and on "source code", just below the head "Dasher 5.0 beta release"): https://github.com/dasher-project/dasher/releases To set Dasher 5.0.0 beta to the "Direct Entry" mode, after installing Dasher one should go to Preferences > Application > Application Style. Currently, after the passing of Ada Majorek, the Dasher Project is being put forward by a group of people in England, but, it seems, at a very slow pace. They have announced the existence of a version 6 beta, but this is only an online instance of Dasher, there is no Windows installer, as far as I know. Their web page: https://dasher.acecentre.net/ For me, and possibly for other users, the Dasher version 5.0.0 beta for Windows that is available works perfectly well, and allows me to use the computer with a proficiency that would be hardly possible otherwise. Here I request that the R developers take a look at this word-typing issue that happens with the new R 4.2.0 on Windows. As an R user (I work in ecological research), I can only thank the R team for this really wonderful piece of statistical software that you make freely available to us all. Regards, Paulo Barata (Rio de Janeiro - Brazil)
______________________________________________ R-devel at r-project.org mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-devel
______________________________________________ R-devel at r-project.org mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-devel