Doubt about nested aov output

Hi Spencer,

Em Dom 04 Set 2005 20:31, Spencer Graves escreveu:

	  Others may know the answer to your question, but I don't.  However,
since I have not seen a reply, I will offer a few comments:

	  1.  What version of R are you using?  I just tried superficially
similar things with the examples in ?aov in R 2.1.1 patched and
consistently got F and p values.

I'm using the R version 2.1.1 on Linux Debian
Version 2.1.1  (2005-06-20), ISBN 3-900051-07-0

	  2.  My preference for this kind of thing is to use lme in
library(nlme) or lmer in library(lme4).  Also, I highly recommend
Pinheiro and Bates (2000) Mixed-Effects Models in S and S-Plus (Springer).

Yes, this is my preference too, but I need aov for classes.

	  3.  If still want to use aov and are getting this problem in R 2.1.1,
could you please provide this list with a small, self contained example
that displays the symptoms that concern you?  And PLEASE do read the
posting guide! "http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html".  It might
increase the speed and utility of replies.

	  spencer graves

I send the complete example. This is a example from the Crwaley's book 
(Statistical Computing: An introdution to data analysis using S-Plus.

This is a classical experiment to show pseudoreplication, from Sokal and Rohlf 
(1995).

In this experiments, It have 3 treatmens applied to 6 rats, for each rat it  
make 3 liver preparation and for each liver it make 2 readings of glycogen. 
This generated 6 pseudoreplication per rat. I'm interested on the effect os 
treatment on the glycogen readings.

Look the R analyses:

--------------------

Glycogen <- 

c(131,130,131,125,136,142,150,148,140,143,160,150,157,145,154,142,147,153,151,155,147,147,162,152,134,125,138,138,135,136,138,140,139,138,134,127)

Glycogen

[1] 131 130 131 125 136 142 150 148 140 143 160 150 157 145 154 142 147 153 
151
[20] 155 147 147 162 152 134 125 138 138 135 136 138 140 139 138 134 127

Treatment <- factor(rep(c(1,2,3),c(12,12,12)))
Treatment

[1] 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3
Levels: 1 2 3

Rat <- factor(rep(rep(c(1,2),c(6,6)),3))
Rat

[1] 1 1 1 1 1 1 2 2 2 2 2 2 1 1 1 1 1 1 2 2 2 2 2 2 1 1 1 1 1 1 2 2 2 2 2 2
Levels: 1 2

Liver <- factor(rep(rep(c(1,2,3),c(2,2,2)),6))
Liver

[1] 1 1 2 2 3 3 1 1 2 2 3 3 1 1 2 2 3 3 1 1 2 2 3 3 1 1 2 2 3 3 1 1 2 2 3 3
Levels: 1 2 3

### Model made identical to the book

model <- aov(Glycogen~Treatment/Rat/Liver+Error(Treatment/Rat/Liver))

summary(model)

Error: Treatment
          Df  Sum Sq Mean Sq
Treatment  2 1557.56  778.78

Error: Treatment:Rat
              Df Sum Sq Mean Sq
Treatment:Rat  3 797.67  265.89

Error: Treatment:Rat:Liver
                    Df Sum Sq Mean Sq
Treatment:Rat:Liver 12  594.0    49.5

Error: Within
          Df Sum Sq Mean Sq F value Pr(>F)
Residuals 18 381.00   21.17

### Model made by myself, I'm interested only in Treatment effects

model <- aov(Glycogen~Treatment+Error(Treatment/Rat/Liver))

summary(model)

Error: Treatment
          Df  Sum Sq Mean Sq
Treatment  2 1557.56  778.78

Error: Treatment:Rat
          Df Sum Sq Mean Sq F value Pr(>F)
Residuals  3 797.67  265.89               

Error: Treatment:Rat:Liver
          Df Sum Sq Mean Sq F value Pr(>F)
Residuals 12  594.0    49.5               

Error: Within
          Df Sum Sq Mean Sq F value Pr(>F)
Residuals 18 381.00   21.17               
--------------------

What it dont calculate the F and P for treatment?

Thanks
Ronaldo

Tristezas n??o pagam d??vidas. Nem bravatas, por
falar nisso.

--Mill??r Fernandes
Retirado de http://www.uol.com.br/millor
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