please please unsubscribe!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The problem seems to be that the people who have a desire to unsubscrbe
and post here are not the most sophisticated of users and expecting
them to know how to track down the raw email or even to realise the
message at the bottom of the post is meant to convey much of anything
is not likely to occur to them. 

I have not had any need to look for the raw email and, while it only
took a few seconds to find it in my email reader, one has to know it
exists before one can look for it. 

I probably have not looked at a raw email for 3-5 years. Why would I?

The chances of a newbie, possibly without much "computer" experience vs
user of MS Office and E-mail even being aware such a thing exists is
slig\t (snowballl in ... ?)

A slight change to the footer seems like a good idea.

John Kane
Kingston ON Canada

-----Original Message-----
From: info at aghmed.fsnet.co.uk
Sent: Sun, 30 Nov 2014 14:02:12 +0000
To: jsorkin at grecc.umaryland.edu, hb at biostat.ucsf.edu
Subject: Re: [R] please please unsubscribe!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Dear John

Perhaps you have set your mail client to hide them? Your email

certainly

has them when I go Options | View | Headers | All in Thunderbird.

Michael

On 30/11/2014 12:05, John Sorkin wrote:

The headers listed below as being part of the ?raw" email messages

are

not seen, at least not in the messages I receive.
John

John David Sorkin M.D., Ph.D.
Professor of Medicine
Chief, Biostatistics and Informatics
University of Maryland School of Medicine Division of Gerontology

and

Geriatric Medicine

Baltimore VA Medical Center
10 North Greene Street
GRECC (BT/18/GR)
Baltimore, MD 21201-1524
(Phone) 410-605-7119
(Fax) 410-605-7913 (Please call phone number above prior to faxing)

On Nov 29, 2014, at 11:22 PM, Henrik Bengtsson

<hb at biostat.ucsf.edu>

wrote:

On Sat, Nov 29, 2014 at 7:32 PM, Jeff Newmiller
<jdnewmil at dcn.davis.ca.us> wrote:

To be fair, Rolf, they have already found difficulty and are

trying

to find their way out of this torrent, and impeding their way is not

in

anyone's interest.

John: I agree that adding the word "unsubscribe" to the footer

would

probably help those lost enough to be mailing the list. The existing

web

page does have that word on it, though.

Fabio: I was unaware of the unsubscribe header... looks

interesting,

though I would be concerned that it seems like it might bypass the
password protection currently in place, making it susceptible to

abuse.

However, there seem to be quite a lot of organizations using it so

it

may work better than my initial impression tells me it does.

FYI, if you look at the raw email messages, they all have the
following in the header:

X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18-1
Precedence: list
List-Id: "Main R Mailing List: Primary help" <r-help.r-project.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/options/r-help>,
<mailto:r-help-request at r-project.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://stat.ethz.ch/pipermail/r-help/>
List-Post: <mailto:r-help at r-project.org>
List-Help: <mailto:r-help-request at r-project.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help>,
<mailto:r-help-request at r-project.org?subject=subscribe>

Note that "List-Unsubscribe" field
[http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc2369.html].  That does not seem to be
enough to have Gmail add a "unsubscribe" button/link (which is

indeed

a useful UX feature).  Google mention some more requirements in
https://support.google.com/mail/answer/81126#unsub, particularly
"'Precedence: bulk'", which I find on since mailing lists typically
use "list" just as r-help does.  I also found a mentioning on "DKIM
key signature" being required

[http://blog.mailchimp.com/gmails-new-unsubscribe-link-and-feedback-loop/].

So, not sure how easy it is to enable all this for the list(s)

(which

are handled by Mailman).

My $.02

/Henrik

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Jeff Newmiller                        The     .....       ..... 

Go

Live...

DCN:<jdnewmil at dcn.davis.ca.us>        Basics: ##.#.       ##.#. 

Live

Go...

                                      Live:   OO#.. Dead: OO#..

Playing

Research Engineer (Solar/Batteries            O.O#.       #.O#. 

with

/Software/Embedded Controllers)               .OO#.       .OO#.

rocks...1k

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sent from my phone. Please excuse my brevity.

On November 29, 2014 6:14:11 PM PST, Rolf Turner

<r.turner at auckland.ac.nz> wrote:

On 30/11/14 14:16, John Sorkin wrote:
I don't see a link that is labeled "unsubscribe".

<SNIP>

On Nov 29, 2014, at 7:35 PM, Jeff Newmiller

<jdnewmil at dcn.davis.CA.us>

wrote:

In what way would that be unlike the link that is already

there?

<SNIP>

On November 29, 2014 4:09:29 PM PST, John Sorkin

<jsorkin at grecc.umaryland.edu> wrote:

Requests like this appear from time to time. Would it make

sense

to

add a link to the bottom of the email messages generated by

the

mail

program that is labeled>>> Well, there is no "unsubscribe"

page as

such.  The link given, i.e.

(password

protected) page where you can handle all matters pertaining to

your

r-help subscription, including unsubscribing.

I suppose that it might be possible to provide a link taking one
directly to this second page, but:

(1) It would add clutter (I'm sure we don't want to delete the

link

to

the primary help page).

(2) The password protection might get complicated; I don't know

about

such matters.

(3) I don't think we want to waste time and resources helping

people

who
are too stupid and illiterate to find their way to the

unsubscribe

facility on the basis of what is already provided.  They

shouldn't

be

R users in the first place.  One needs at least two grey cells to

rub

together to deal with R.

cheers,

Rolf Turner

...{{dropped:22}}