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9 messages · Bert Gunter, Jeff Newmiller, Duncan Murdoch +2 more

Original
Arnaud FELD
# 
Hi,

I use that mailing list because I?ve tried to send a message to the
r-core address and received :
I would like to borrow most of the code of stats :: window within my
package disaggR, which has an uncompatible license as it is MIT not
GPL2. window has some extra overhead because of the calling of time()
at the beginning of the function (that is only used for extend =
FALSE). Copying the function and modifying it would allow me a bit of
optimization, but I need some agreement as my package is MIT.
Is it possible ?

Thanks,

Arnaud FELDMANN
Bert Gunter
# 
Questions about package development should be posted to
R-package-devel (**not R-devel**).
See https://www.r-project.org/mail.html  for details.

(I am not sure that they get into legal weeds there, but it seems like
the right place to try).

Bert Gunter

"The trouble with having an open mind is that people keep coming along
and sticking things into it."
-- Opus (aka Berkeley Breathed in his "Bloom County" comic strip )
On Tue, Nov 9, 2021 at 11:17 AM Arnaud FELD <arnaud.feldmann at gmail.com> wrote:
Jeff Newmiller
# 
This question isn't a "how to do package development" question... this is about a specific package so you should send email to the package developer identified by the maintainer() function.

I can't foresee this request finding a positive response from R Core, but email seems the most correct approach.
On November 9, 2021 11:34:12 AM PST, Bert Gunter <bgunter.4567 at gmail.com> wrote:

  
    

      
      
    

  


  


      

    

    

      
      

        


  

        

      Duncan Murdoch
    

    

      
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On 09/11/2021 8:27 a.m., Arnaud FELD wrote:

            

      
      
      
    

        
I would assume not.  Most of R has many, many authors, and some of us 
will not agree to changing the license to a more permissive form.

Duncan Murdoch

  
  


  


      

    

    

      
      

        


  

        

      Duncan Murdoch
    

    

      
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On 09/11/2021 2:45 p.m., Jeff Newmiller wrote:

            

      
      
      
    

        
I think Arnaud is the package developer; his question is whether he can 
copy R source into his package.

Duncan Murdoch

            

      
      
      
    

        

      
      
    

            

      
      
      
    

        

      
      
    

            

      
      
      
    

  
  


  


      

    

    

      
      

        


  

        

      Jeff Newmiller
    

    

      
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I understand that, but the reason he gives for copying code from the stats package is to change the license. That decision seems like something that requires a very direct communication with/permission from the maintainer.

        
On November 9, 2021 12:21:18 PM PST, Duncan Murdoch <murdoch.duncan at gmail.com> wrote:

            

      
      
      
    

        

      
      
    

            

      
      
      
    

        

      
      
    

            

      
      
      
    

        

  
    

      
      
    

  


  


      

    

    

      
      

        


  

        

      Duncan Murdoch
    

    

      
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On 09/11/2021 3:52 p.m., Jeff Newmiller wrote:

            

      
      
      
    

        
The stats package doesn't give a valid maintainer() address.  It gives a 
vague reference to the r-project.org website, but that website doesn't 
give a contact address.

In fact, the authorship of R is very widely distributed among at least 
dozens of contributors.  Identifying and contacting them all would be a 
nightmare but probably isn't necessary.  However, identifying and 
contacting the necessary ones (the ones who hold copyright on the parts 
he wants to copy) would be very difficult.  Not contacting the relevant 
ones would mean Arnaud's work would be potentially in violation of their 
copyright.

Even if he did manage to contact all the copyright holders, some of them 
would probably not agree to more permissive licenses.  For example, I am 
a copyright holder on some parts of the source, and I wouldn't agree to 
relicensing.

Duncan Murdoch

            

      
      
      
    

        

      
      
    

            

      
      
      
    

        

      
      
    

            

      
      
      
    

  
  


  


      

    

    

      
      

        


  

        

      Arnaud FELD
    

    

      
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Thanks for your answer. That is helpful even if that is disappointing
for me ;) I can see now that, as R (base and recommended packages) has
had contributions from a lot of people, it's not like a package, you
just can't have a punctual "okay do what you want". I'll have to stick
with a slow window call, I guess.

I was right to ask anyway, and thanks for your advices.

Le mar. 9 nov. 2021 ? 22:51, Duncan Murdoch <murdoch.duncan at gmail.com> a ?crit :

            

      
      
      
    

        

      
      
    

            

      
      
      
    

        

      
      
    

            

      
      
      
    

  
  


  


      

    

    

      
      

        


  

        

      Martin Maechler
    

    

      
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> Thanks for your answer. That is helpful even if that is disappointing
    > for me ;) I can see now that, as R (base and recommended packages) has
    > had contributions from a lot of people, it's not like a package, you
    > just can't have a punctual "okay do what you want". I'll have to stick
    > with a slow window call, I guess.

    > I was right to ask anyway, and thanks for your advices.

Rather you should think long and hard if and why you  really
really want to stick with a non-GPL licence for you package.
That is the real problem and a shame in my eyes!

R would almost surely never have grown big if the original authors,
Ross Ihaka and Robert Gentleman  hadn't decided to adopt the GNU Public 
Licence (GPL)  very early ... and Ross & Robert said it was to a
large extent because I had insisted that this was important and
would potentially bring quite a few highly qualified people (all
from academia at the time) to adopt and contribute to R.

So, *not* using  GPL  for your package feels slightly as a slap
in the face of all the people who made R what it is today.

and just for those it is not obvious:
You *could* easily copy part of R code into your package if
you switched to use GPL -- of course still attributing these
parts a copyrighted by the R Core team.
Quite a few package maintainers have done so, e.g.,
testthat, actuar, pryr, vetr, DPQ, round, ... {I count about 80
CRAN packages}

Martin

--
Martin Maechler
ETH Zurich  and  R Core team


    > Le mar. 9 nov. 2021 ? 22:51, Duncan Murdoch <murdoch.duncan at gmail.com> a ?crit :
    >>

        
>> On 09/11/2021 3:52 p.m., Jeff Newmiller wrote:

        
>> > I understand that, but the reason he gives for copying code from the stats package is to change the license. That decision seems like something that requires a very direct communication with/permission from the maintainer.
    >> 
    >> The stats package doesn't give a valid maintainer() address.  It gives a
    >> vague reference to the r-project.org website, but that website doesn't
    >> give a contact address.
    >> 
    >> In fact, the authorship of R is very widely distributed among at least
    >> dozens of contributors.  Identifying and contacting them all would be a
    >> nightmare but probably isn't necessary.  However, identifying and
    >> contacting the necessary ones (the ones who hold copyright on the parts
    >> he wants to copy) would be very difficult.  Not contacting the relevant
    >> ones would mean Arnaud's work would be potentially in violation of their
    >> copyright.
    >> 
    >> Even if he did manage to contact all the copyright holders, some of them
    >> would probably not agree to more permissive licenses.  For example, I am
    >> a copyright holder on some parts of the source, and I wouldn't agree to
    >> relicensing.
    >> 
    >> Duncan Murdoch
    >> 
    >> 
    >> 
    >> >

        
>> > On November 9, 2021 12:21:18 PM PST, Duncan Murdoch <murdoch.duncan at gmail.com> wrote:

        
>> >> On 09/11/2021 2:45 p.m., Jeff Newmiller wrote:

        
>> >>> This question isn't a "how to do package development" question... this is about a specific package so you should send email to the package developer identified by the maintainer() function.
    >> >>
    >> >> I think Arnaud is the package developer; his question is whether he can
    >> >> copy R source into his package.
    >> >>
    >> >> Duncan Murdoch
    >> >>
    >> >>>
    >> >>> I can't foresee this request finding a positive response from R Core, but email seems the most correct approach.
    >> >>>

        
>> >>> On November 9, 2021 11:34:12 AM PST, Bert Gunter <bgunter.4567 at gmail.com> wrote:

        
>> >>>> Questions about package development should be posted to
    >> >>>> R-package-devel (**not R-devel**).
    >> >>>> See https://www.r-project.org/mail.html  for details.
    >> >>>>
    >> >>>> (I am not sure that they get into legal weeds there, but it seems like
    >> >>>> the right place to try).
    >> >>>>
    >> >>>> Bert Gunter
    >> >>>>
    >> >>>> "The trouble with having an open mind is that people keep coming along
    >> >>>> and sticking things into it."
    >> >>>> -- Opus (aka Berkeley Breathed in his "Bloom County" comic strip )
    >> >>>>

        
>> >>>> On Tue, Nov 9, 2021 at 11:17 AM Arnaud FELD <arnaud.feldmann at gmail.com> wrote:

        
>> >>>>>
    >> >>>>> Hi,
    >> >>>>>
    >> >>>>> I use that mailing list because I?ve tried to send a message to the
    >> >>>>> r-core address and received :
    >> >>>>>
    >> >>>>>> "Non-members are typically *NOT* allowed to post messages to this
    >> >>>>>> private developers' list. Please use an appropriate mailing list (from
    >> >>>>>> http://www.r-project.org/mail.html). For R packages, use
    >> >>>>>> maintainer("<pkg>") in R (and if that is R-core at .., use the R-help
    >> >>>>>> address).
    >> >>>>>
    >> >>>>>    I would like to borrow most of the code of stats :: window within my
    >> >>>>> package disaggR, which has an uncompatible license as it is MIT not
    >> >>>>> GPL2. window has some extra overhead because of the calling of time()
    >> >>>>> at the beginning of the function (that is only used for extend =
    >> >>>>> FALSE). Copying the function and modifying it would allow me a bit of
    >> >>>>> optimization, but I need some agreement as my package is MIT.
    >> >>>>> Is it possible ?
    >> >>>>>
    >> >>>>> Thanks,
    >> >>>>>
    >> >>>>> Arnaud FELDMANN
    >> >>>>>
    >> >>>>> ______________________________________________
    >> >>>>> R-help at r-project.org mailing list -- To UNSUBSCRIBE and more, see
    >> >>>>> https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help
    >> >>>>> PLEASE do read the posting guide http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html
    >> >>>>> and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code.
    >> >>>>
    >> >>>> ______________________________________________
    >> >>>> R-help at r-project.org mailing list -- To UNSUBSCRIBE and more, see
    >> >>>> https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help
    >> >>>> PLEASE do read the posting guide http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html
    >> >>>> and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code.
    >> >>>
    >> >>
    >> >
    >> 

    > ______________________________________________
    > R-help at r-project.org mailing list -- To UNSUBSCRIBE and more, see
    > https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help
    > PLEASE do read the posting guide http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html
    > and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code.