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[off-topic] crossword

14 messages · Bill Dunlap, Ebert,Timothy Aaron, Calum Polwart +4 more

Original
Bill Dunlap
# 
The New York Times crossword this morning had the clue (51 down, 5 letters)
"Writes in C or R, say".

-Bill
Erin Hodgess
# 
RULES!


Erin Hodgess, PhD
mailto: erinm.hodgess at gmail.com


On Thu, Dec 12, 2024 at 9:42?AM Bill Dunlap <williamwdunlap at gmail.com>
wrote:

  
  


  


      

    

    

      
      

        


  

        

      Ebert,Timothy Aaron
    

    

      
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I do not understand the question and I do not understand the answer. Possibly one confounds the other.

-----Original Message-----
From: R-help <r-help-bounces at r-project.org> On Behalf Of Erin Hodgess
Sent: Thursday, December 12, 2024 11:56 AM
To: Bill Dunlap <williamwdunlap at gmail.com>
Cc: r-help at R-project.org
Subject: Re: [R] [off-topic] crossword

[External Email]

RULES!


Erin Hodgess, PhD
mailto: erinm.hodgess at gmail.com


On Thu, Dec 12, 2024 at 9:42?AM Bill Dunlap <williamwdunlap at gmail.com>
wrote:

            

      
      
      
    

        

      
      
    

        
______________________________________________
R-help at r-project.org mailing list -- To UNSUBSCRIBE and more, see
https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help
PLEASE do read the posting guide https://www.r-project.org/posting-guide.html
and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code.

  
  


  


      

    

    

      
      

        


  

        

      Calum Polwart
    

    

      
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Well to complicate things, I don't think RULES is the answer.

This is a cryptic crossword clue. They usually contain the answer twice
(well... Cryptically!!)

Writes in C or R, say.

I think the answer is CODER

If you look up the definition of say in the dictionary one option is:



   1. give instructions to or direct somebody to do something with
   authority (verb)


That's the simple part of the clue. (Notice the comma cryptic clues have
two parts giving the "same" answer)

The more complex part I think is  that and 'ode' (a poem that is written
like it is said or something) is written in between C and R  giving C ODE
R,

...


Very happy to be corrected...


(Oh and as a third part a coder writes in C or R... I hope the JavaScript
kids are listening ;-) )

        
On Fri, 13 Dec 2024, 04:26 Ebert,Timothy Aaron, <tebert at ufl.edu> wrote:

        

            

      
      
      
    

        

      
      
    

            

      
      
      
    

        

      
      
    

        

  
  


  


      

    

    

      
      

        


  

        

      Ebert,Timothy Aaron
    

    

      
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Ok, that answer I understand and see it fitting. In that context there are several other possibilities that could also work:
Programmer, hacker, geek, cracker. There are other choices, but the other options like ?skiddie? are ones that I do not recognize and have omitted.

Tim

From: CALUM POLWART <polc1410 at gmail.com>
Sent: Friday, December 13, 2024 3:03 AM
To: Ebert,Timothy Aaron <tebert at ufl.edu>
Cc: Erin Hodgess <erinm.hodgess at gmail.com>; Bill Dunlap <williamwdunlap at gmail.com>; r-help at R-project.org
Subject: Re: [R] [off-topic] crossword

[External Email]

Well to complicate things, I don't think RULES is the answer.

This is a cryptic crossword clue. They usually contain the answer twice (well... Cryptically!!)

Writes in C or R, say.

I think the answer is CODER

If you look up the definition of say in the dictionary one option is:



  1.  give instructions to or direct somebody to do something with authority (verb)

That's the simple part of the clue. (Notice the comma cryptic clues have two parts giving the "same" answer)

The more complex part I think is  that and 'ode' (a poem that is written like it is said or something) is written in between C and R  giving C ODE R,

...



Very happy to be corrected...



(Oh and as a third part a coder writes in C or R... I hope the JavaScript kids are listening ;-) )

        
On Fri, 13 Dec 2024, 04:26 Ebert,Timothy Aaron, <tebert at ufl.edu<mailto:tebert at ufl.edu>> wrote:

        
I do not understand the question and I do not understand the answer. Possibly one confounds the other.

-----Original Message-----
From: R-help <r-help-bounces at r-project.org<mailto:r-help-bounces at r-project.org>> On Behalf Of Erin Hodgess
Sent: Thursday, December 12, 2024 11:56 AM
To: Bill Dunlap <williamwdunlap at gmail.com<mailto:williamwdunlap at gmail.com>>
Cc: r-help at R-project.org<mailto:r-help at R-project.org>
Subject: Re: [R] [off-topic] crossword

[External Email]

RULES!


Erin Hodgess, PhD
mailto: erinm.hodgess at gmail.com<mailto:erinm.hodgess at gmail.com>


On Thu, Dec 12, 2024 at 9:42?AM Bill Dunlap <williamwdunlap at gmail.com<mailto:williamwdunlap at gmail.com>>
wrote:

            

      
      
      
    

        

      
      
    

        
______________________________________________
R-help at r-project.org<mailto:R-help at r-project.org> mailing list -- To UNSUBSCRIBE and more, see
https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help
PLEASE do read the posting guide https://www.r-project.org/posting-guide.html
and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code.
______________________________________________
R-help at r-project.org<mailto:R-help at r-project.org> mailing list -- To UNSUBSCRIBE and more, see
https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help
PLEASE do read the posting guide https://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html<https://www.r-project.org/posting-guide.html>
and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code.

  
  


  


      

    

    

      
      

        


  

        

      Bill Dunlap
    

    

      
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The answer for "Writes in C and R, say" was "codes".  I was impressed that
R has passed into popular culture.

        
On Thu, Dec 12, 2024 at 8:25?PM Ebert,Timothy Aaron <tebert at ufl.edu> wrote:

        

            

      
      
      
    

        

      
      
    

            

      
      
      
    

        

      
      
    

        

  
  


  


      

    

    

      
      

        


  

        

      Olivier Crouzet
    

    

      
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Thank you all for the helpful and enlightening comments. One question
though, isn't "say" a synonym in oral forms of american english for
"for example"? Which would translate to:

            

      
      
      
    

        
which would involve that C and R are possible examples of the usage
contexts considered here in which someone would "write"?

This would then make perfect sense to me for the proposed answer:
"codes".

Yours.
Olivier.


On Fri, 13 Dec 2024

        
08:02:32 +0000 CALUM POLWART <polc1410 at gmail.com> wrote:

        

            

      
      
      
    

        

      
      
    

            

      
      
      
    

        

      
      
    

            

      
      
      
    

        

      
      
    

        

  
    

      
      
    

  


  


      

    

    

      
      

        


  

        

      Erin Hodgess
    

    

      
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RULES means that anyone who uses C or R RULES the Universe.  They just do.

Erin Hodgess, PhD
mailto: erinm.hodgess at gmail.com

        
On Fri, Dec 13, 2024 at 1:02?AM CALUM POLWART <polc1410 at gmail.com> wrote:

        

            

      
      
      
    

        

      
      
    

            

      
      
      
    

        

      
      
    

            

      
      
      
    

        

  
  


  


      

    

    

      
      

        


  

        

      @vi@e@gross m@iii@g oii gm@ii@com
    

    

      
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Since this is a discussion about a specific crossword puzzle the right answer has to fit with any words coming in from the other direction or it gets cross.

I thought the clue hinted it started with C and ended with R and that the languages were chosen for no reason other than that they helped make a clue. It would otherwise be equally valid to choose COBOL and RUST. This has nothing specific about R, or C, for that matter. Anyone who writes code for computers in any language can be called a CODER.

But since CODES and CODER and many other words like PRINT may make sense, it still can be necessary to have it fit the crossword puzzle. Since it mentioned R and not it's cousin S, I think CODER is more likely the answer than CODES.

Not that it changes our lives in the slightest way. I suspect people who are dedicated cruciverbalists need not know anything about the C and R languages or even programming in general. They are supposed to figure out it is an ODE between C and R.

-----Original Message-----
From: R-help <r-help-bounces at r-project.org> On Behalf Of Olivier Crouzet
Sent: Friday, December 13, 2024 9:51 AM
To: r-help at r-project.org
Subject: Re: [R] [off-topic] crossword

Thank you all for the helpful and enlightening comments. One question
though, isn't "say" a synonym in oral forms of american english for
"for example"? Which would translate to:

            

      
      
      
    

        
which would involve that C and R are possible examples of the usage
contexts considered here in which someone would "write"?

This would then make perfect sense to me for the proposed answer:
"codes".

Yours.
Olivier.


On Fri, 13 Dec 2024

        
08:02:32 +0000 CALUM POLWART <polc1410 at gmail.com> wrote:

        

            

      
      
      
    

        

      
      
    

            

      
      
      
    

        

      
      
    

            

      
      
      
    

        

      
      
    

        

  
    

      
      
    

  


  


      

    

    

      
      

        


  

        

      @vi@e@gross m@iii@g oii gm@ii@com
    

    

      
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I hesitate to say this and stray back on topic.

R is basically an extension of C as it was written in C and many added functions end up being rewritten in a variant of C, albeit other languages may at times intrude. Something similar could be said of C-Python. 

But I truly doubt the ones making this puzzle know or care. If they eventually want to make some new puzzle, they can search for a list of all programming languages invented and find stuff like here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_programming_languages

I have studied lots of languages but this list is daunting. It does have quite a few single (or close) character language names the cruciverbalist can use.

There was an A+ it seems and a B, and besides C, quite a few variants like C++, C--, C*. C#, and there was a D, and an E, and not only an F but an F# and F*.

There was no G but there is a GO, and there is not only a J but a sharp and ++ version, and a K but no L nor even a Noel.

There is an M, of sorts and variants and a P and variants and there is a Q.

We then get to R and there is also an R++, whatever that is. Given R does not support ++, I wonder.

And, of course, an assortment of S, and a T and even a V and oddly an X++ and Z++.

So, someone who knows nothing about programming has a number of games they can play just using the list of languages they can search for. R was not chosen as something they had heard of, just as a letter of the alphabet that would help them make a puzzle. Neither, necessarily, was C.

All this leads to a question.

S was supposed to mean something like Statistics and was not public domain. When R came along as a public language, I thing someone considered it as S-- meaning S sripped of something and obviously that became the letter before S, meaning R.

What if we wanted a spin off of R, perhaps a more lightweight version, or one where the Tidyverse was part of the base? The obvious (to maybe just me) idea would be that R-- -> Q, right?

But as Q is already taken, it may never happen.

-----Original Message-----
From: R-help <r-help-bounces at r-project.org> On Behalf Of Erin Hodgess
Sent: Friday, December 13, 2024 10:06 AM
To: CALUM POLWART <polc1410 at gmail.com>
Cc: r-help at r-project.org
Subject: Re: [R] [off-topic] crossword

RULES means that anyone who uses C or R RULES the Universe.  They just do.

Erin Hodgess, PhD
mailto: erinm.hodgess at gmail.com

        
On Fri, Dec 13, 2024 at 1:02?AM CALUM POLWART <polc1410 at gmail.com> wrote:

        

            

      
      
      
    

        

      
      
    

            

      
      
      
    

        

      
      
    

            

      
      
      
    

        
______________________________________________
R-help at r-project.org mailing list -- To UNSUBSCRIBE and more, see
https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help
PLEASE do read the posting guide https://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html
and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code.

  
  


  


      

    

    

      
      

        


  

        

      Bill Dunlap
    

    

      
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Crossword answers have to be drop-in replacements for the clue in a
sentence.  Hence replacing
   "She writes in C and R, say."
with
   "She codes"
would work, but "She coder" would not.

(If one interpreted C and R as the names of third party candidates for
office, then "She votes" would work,
but the across words made "codes" a more reasonable answer.)

I was impressed that they expected the typical NYT reader to know that R
was a programming language.

-Bill

        
On Fri, Dec 13, 2024 at 11:40?AM <avi.e.gross at gmail.com> wrote:

        

            

      
      
      
    

        

      
      
    

            

      
      
      
    

        

      
      
    

            

      
      
      
    

        

      
      
    

            

      
      
      
    

        

      
      
    

            

      
      
      
    

        

      
      
    

            

      
      
      
    

        

      
      
    

        

  
  


  


      

    

    

      
      

        


  

        

      @vi@e@gross m@iii@g oii gm@ii@com
    

    

      
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Not to beat a dead horse, but if they wanted an answer of CODES, then why not use S instead of R in the ?

 

From: Bill Dunlap <williamwdunlap at gmail.com> 
Sent: Friday, December 13, 2024 3:47 PM
To: avi.e.gross at gmail.com
Cc: Olivier Crouzet <olivier.crouzet at univ-nantes.fr>; r-help at r-project.org
Subject: Re: [R] [off-topic] crossword

 

Crossword answers have to be drop-in replacements for the clue in a sentence.  Hence replacing

   "She writes in C and R, say."

with

   "She codes"

would work, but "She coder" would not.

 

(If one interpreted C and R as the names of third party candidates for office, then "She votes" would work,

but the across words made "codes" a more reasonable answer.)

 

I was impressed that they expected the typical NYT reader to know that R was a programming language.

 

-Bill

        
On Fri, Dec 13, 2024 at 11:40?AM <avi.e.gross at gmail.com <mailto:avi.e.gross at gmail.com> > wrote:

        
Since this is a discussion about a specific crossword puzzle the right answer has to fit with any words coming in from the other direction or it gets cross.

I thought the clue hinted it started with C and ended with R and that the languages were chosen for no reason other than that they helped make a clue. It would otherwise be equally valid to choose COBOL and RUST. This has nothing specific about R, or C, for that matter. Anyone who writes code for computers in any language can be called a CODER.

But since CODES and CODER and many other words like PRINT may make sense, it still can be necessary to have it fit the crossword puzzle. Since it mentioned R and not it's cousin S, I think CODER is more likely the answer than CODES.

Not that it changes our lives in the slightest way. I suspect people who are dedicated cruciverbalists need not know anything about the C and R languages or even programming in general. They are supposed to figure out it is an ODE between C and R.

-----Original Message-----
From: R-help <r-help-bounces at r-project.org <mailto:r-help-bounces at r-project.org> > On Behalf Of Olivier Crouzet
Sent: Friday, December 13, 2024 9:51 AM
To: r-help at r-project.org <mailto:r-help at r-project.org> 
Subject: Re: [R] [off-topic] crossword

Thank you all for the helpful and enlightening comments. One question
though, isn't "say" a synonym in oral forms of american english for
"for example"? Which would translate to:

            

      
      
      
    

        
which would involve that C and R are possible examples of the usage
contexts considered here in which someone would "write"?

This would then make perfect sense to me for the proposed answer:
"codes".

Yours.
Olivier.


On Fri, 13 Dec 2024

        
08:02:32 +0000 CALUM POLWART <polc1410 at gmail.com <mailto:polc1410 at gmail.com> > wrote:

        

            

      
      
      
    

        

      
      
    

            

      
      
      
    

        

      
      
    

            

      
      
      
    

        

      
      
    

        

  
    

      
      
    

  


  


      

    

    
1 day later

    

      
      

        


  

        

      Enrico Schumann
    

    

      
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On Fri, 13 Dec 2024, Bill Dunlap writes:

            

      
      
      
    

        
They expect them to be long-time readers :-)
https://archive.nytimes.com/www.nytimes.com/2009/01/07/technology/business-computing/07program.html

            

      
      
      
    

        

  
    

      
      
    

  


  


      

    

    

      
      

        


  

        

      @vi@e@gross m@iii@g oii gm@ii@com
    

    

      
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Long time readers indeed.

That article was from 2009!



-----Original Message-----
From: R-help <r-help-bounces at r-project.org> On Behalf Of Enrico Schumann
Sent: Sunday, December 15, 2024 5:27 AM
To: Bill Dunlap <williamwdunlap at gmail.com>
Cc: r-help at r-project.org
Subject: Re: [R] [off-topic] crossword

On Fri, 13 Dec 2024, Bill Dunlap writes:

            

      
      
      
    

        
They expect them to be long-time readers :-)
https://archive.nytimes.com/www.nytimes.com/2009/01/07/technology/business-computing/07program.html