i already sent this please unsusbscribe passoword: 33311986 or 33311986dic please unsubscribe me
please please unsubscribe!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
22 messages · M. A. Parreño, Bert Gunter, Jeff Newmiller +11 more
Please please follow the mailing list link below and unsubscribe yourself there as directed, not here. -- Bert Bert Gunter Genentech Nonclinical Biostatistics (650) 467-7374 "Data is not information. Information is not knowledge. And knowledge is certainly not wisdom." Clifford Stoll
On Sat, Nov 29, 2014 at 5:26 AM, M. A. Parre?o <mapar3 at gmail.com> wrote:
i already sent this please unsusbscribe
passoword: 33311986
or 33311986dic
please unsubscribe me
[[alternative HTML version deleted]]
______________________________________________ R-help at r-project.org mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help PLEASE do read the posting guide http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code.
Requests like this appear from time to time. Would it make sense to
add a link to the bottom of the email messages generated by the mail program that is labeled and goes directly to the unsubscribe page?
John
On Nov 29, 2014, at 8:26 AM, M. A. Parre?o<mapar3 at gmail.com>
<mapar3 at gmail.com> wrote:
i already sent this please unsusbscribe passoword: 33311986 or 33311986dic please unsubscribe me [[alternative HTML version deleted]]
______________________________________________ R-help at r-project.org mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help PLEASE do read the posting guide
http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html
and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code.
Confidentiality Statement: This email message, including any attachments, is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information. Any unauthorized use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply email and destroy all copies of the original message.
In what way would that be unlike the link that is already there?
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jeff Newmiller The ..... ..... Go Live...
DCN:<jdnewmil at dcn.davis.ca.us> Basics: ##.#. ##.#. Live Go...
Live: OO#.. Dead: OO#.. Playing
Research Engineer (Solar/Batteries O.O#. #.O#. with
/Software/Embedded Controllers) .OO#. .OO#. rocks...1k
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sent from my phone. Please excuse my brevity.
On November 29, 2014 4:09:29 PM PST, John Sorkin <jsorkin at grecc.umaryland.edu> wrote:
Requests like this appear from time to time. Would it make sense to
add a link to the bottom of the email messages generated by the mail program that is labeled and goes directly to the unsubscribe page?
John
On Nov 29, 2014, at 8:26 AM, M. A. Parre?o<mapar3 at gmail.com>
<mapar3 at gmail.com> wrote:
i already sent this please unsusbscribe passoword: 33311986 or 33311986dic please unsubscribe me [[alternative HTML version deleted]]
______________________________________________ R-help at r-project.org mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help PLEASE do read the posting guide
http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code. Confidentiality Statement: This email message, including any attachments, is for t...{{dropped:12}}
I don't see a link that is labeled "unsubscribe". John
John David Sorkin M.D., Ph.D. Professor of Medicine Chief, Biostatistics and Informatics University of Maryland School of Medicine Division of Gerontology and
Geriatric Medicine
Baltimore VA Medical Center 10 North Greene Street GRECC (BT/18/GR) Baltimore, MD 21201-1524 (Phone) 410-605-7119 (Fax) 410-605-7913 (Please call phone number above prior to faxing)
On Nov 29, 2014, at 7:35 PM, Jeff Newmiller <jdnewmil at dcn.davis.CA.us>
wrote:
In what way would that be unlike the link that is already there?
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jeff Newmiller The ..... ..... Go
Live...
DCN:<jdnewmil at dcn.davis.ca.us> Basics: ##.#. ##.#. Live
Go...
Live: OO#.. Dead: OO#..
Playing
Research Engineer (Solar/Batteries O.O#. #.O#. with /Software/Embedded Controllers) .OO#. .OO#.
rocks...1k
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sent from my phone. Please excuse my brevity. On November 29, 2014 4:09:29 PM PST, John Sorkin
<jsorkin at grecc.umaryland.edu> wrote:
Requests like this appear from time to time. Would it make sense to
add a link to the bottom of the email messages generated by the mail program that is labeled and goes directly to the unsubscribe page?
John
On Nov 29, 2014, at 8:26 AM, M. A. Parre?o<mapar3 at gmail.com>
<mapar3 at gmail.com> wrote:
i already sent this please unsusbscribe passoword: 33311986 or 33311986dic please unsubscribe me [[alternative HTML version deleted]]
______________________________________________ R-help at r-project.org mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help PLEASE do read the posting guide
http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code. Confidentiality Statement: This email message, including any attachments, is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information. Any unauthorized use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply email and destroy all copies of the original message.
______________________________________________ R-help at r-project.org mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help PLEASE do read the posting guide http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code.
Confidentiality Statement: This email message, including any attachments, is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information. Any unauthorized use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply email and destroy all copies of the original message.
On 30/11/14 14:16, John Sorkin wrote:
I don't see a link that is labeled "unsubscribe".
<SNIP>
On Nov 29, 2014, at 7:35 PM, Jeff Newmiller <jdnewmil at dcn.davis.CA.us>
wrote:
In what way would that be unlike the link that is already there?
<SNIP>
On November 29, 2014 4:09:29 PM PST, John Sorkin
<jsorkin at grecc.umaryland.edu> wrote:
Requests like this appear from time to time. Would it make sense to
add a link to the bottom of the email messages generated by the mail program that is labeled and goes directly to the unsubscribe page?
Well, there is no "unsubscribe" page as such. The link given, i.e.
https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help
takes you to the primary help page. That provides a link to a (password
protected) page where you can handle all matters pertaining to your
r-help subscription, including unsubscribing.
I suppose that it might be possible to provide a link taking one
directly to this second page, but:
(1) It would add clutter (I'm sure we don't want to delete the link to
the primary help page).
(2) The password protection might get complicated; I don't know about
such matters.
(3) I don't think we want to waste time and resources helping people who
are too stupid and illiterate to find their way to the unsubscribe
facility on the basis of what is already provided. They shouldn't be
R users in the first place. One needs at least two grey cells to rub
together to deal with R.
cheers,
Rolf Turner
Rolf Turner Technical Editor ANZJS
I think r-help list software supports unsubscribe headers. When this option is enabled an additional header containing an unsubscribe link is sent with every message do the list. This header is interpreted by some email clients like Hotmail and Gmail, and a small unsubscribe button is placed after the sender's email. Enabling this won't hurt, it won't add more text to emails and maybe can save a few messages like this. #! F?bio
On Sun, Nov 30, 2014 at 12:14 AM, Rolf Turner <r.turner at auckland.ac.nz> wrote:
On 30/11/14 14:16, John Sorkin wrote:
I don't see a link that is labeled "unsubscribe".
<SNIP>
On Nov 29, 2014, at 7:35 PM, Jeff Newmiller <jdnewmil at dcn.davis.CA.us>
wrote:
In what way would that be unlike the link that is already there?
<SNIP>
On November 29, 2014 4:09:29 PM PST, John Sorkin
<jsorkin at grecc.umaryland.edu> wrote:
Requests like this appear from time to time. Would it make sense to
add a link to the bottom of the email messages generated by the mail program that is labeled and goes directly to the unsubscribe page?
Well, there is no "unsubscribe" page as such. The link given, i.e.
https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help takes you to the primary help page. That provides a link to a (password protected) page where you can handle all matters pertaining to your r-help subscription, including unsubscribing. I suppose that it might be possible to provide a link taking one directly to this second page, but: (1) It would add clutter (I'm sure we don't want to delete the link to the primary help page). (2) The password protection might get complicated; I don't know about such matters. (3) I don't think we want to waste time and resources helping people who are too stupid and illiterate to find their way to the unsubscribe facility on the basis of what is already provided. They shouldn't be R users in the first place. One needs at least two grey cells to rub together to deal with R. cheers, Rolf Turner -- Rolf Turner Technical Editor ANZJS ______________________________________________ R-help at r-project.org mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help PLEASE do read the posting guide http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code.
Any mailing list which respects its recipients makes unsubscribing as easy as possible. If users are having trouble doing so, it's clearly not easy enough. I think putting a directly link in every message is certainly the right thing to do.
On 11/29/2014 09:14 PM, Rolf Turner wrote:
On 30/11/14 14:16, John Sorkin wrote:
I don't see a link that is labeled "unsubscribe".
<SNIP>
On Nov 29, 2014, at 7:35 PM, Jeff Newmiller <jdnewmil at dcn.davis.CA.us>
wrote:
In what way would that be unlike the link that is already there?
<SNIP>
On November 29, 2014 4:09:29 PM PST, John Sorkin
<jsorkin at grecc.umaryland.edu> wrote:
Requests like this appear from time to time. Would it make sense to
add a link to the bottom of the email messages generated by the mail program that is labeled and goes directly to the unsubscribe page?
Well, there is no "unsubscribe" page as such. The link given, i.e.
https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help takes you to the primary help page. That provides a link to a (password protected) page where you can handle all matters pertaining to your r-help subscription, including unsubscribing. I suppose that it might be possible to provide a link taking one directly to this second page, but: (1) It would add clutter (I'm sure we don't want to delete the link to the primary help page). (2) The password protection might get complicated; I don't know about such matters. (3) I don't think we want to waste time and resources helping people who are too stupid and illiterate to find their way to the unsubscribe facility on the basis of what is already provided. They shouldn't be R users in the first place. One needs at least two grey cells to rub together to deal with R. cheers, Rolf Turner
To be fair, Rolf, they have already found difficulty and are trying to find their way out of this torrent, and impeding their way is not in anyone's interest.
John: I agree that adding the word "unsubscribe" to the footer would probably help those lost enough to be mailing the list. The existing web page does have that word on it, though.
Fabio: I was unaware of the unsubscribe header... looks interesting, though I would be concerned that it seems like it might bypass the password protection currently in place, making it susceptible to abuse. However, there seem to be quite a lot of organizations using it so it may work better than my initial impression tells me it does.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jeff Newmiller The ..... ..... Go Live...
DCN:<jdnewmil at dcn.davis.ca.us> Basics: ##.#. ##.#. Live Go...
Live: OO#.. Dead: OO#.. Playing
Research Engineer (Solar/Batteries O.O#. #.O#. with
/Software/Embedded Controllers) .OO#. .OO#. rocks...1k
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sent from my phone. Please excuse my brevity.
On November 29, 2014 6:14:11 PM PST, Rolf Turner <r.turner at auckland.ac.nz> wrote:
On 30/11/14 14:16, John Sorkin wrote:
I don't see a link that is labeled "unsubscribe".
<SNIP>
On Nov 29, 2014, at 7:35 PM, Jeff Newmiller
<jdnewmil at dcn.davis.CA.us>
wrote:
In what way would that be unlike the link that is already there?
<SNIP>
On November 29, 2014 4:09:29 PM PST, John Sorkin
<jsorkin at grecc.umaryland.edu> wrote:
Requests like this appear from time to time. Would it make sense
to
add a link to the bottom of the email messages generated by the
program that is labeled and goes directly to the unsubscribe page?
Well, there is no "unsubscribe" page as such. The link given, i.e.
https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help takes you to the primary help page. That provides a link to a (password protected) page where you can handle all matters pertaining to your r-help subscription, including unsubscribing. I suppose that it might be possible to provide a link taking one directly to this second page, but: (1) It would add clutter (I'm sure we don't want to delete the link to the primary help page). (2) The password protection might get complicated; I don't know about such matters. (3) I don't think we want to waste time and resources helping people who are too stupid and illiterate to find their way to the unsubscribe facility on the basis of what is already provided. They shouldn't be R users in the first place. One needs at least two grey cells to rub together to deal with R. cheers, Rolf Turner
On Sat, Nov 29, 2014 at 7:32 PM, Jeff Newmiller
<jdnewmil at dcn.davis.ca.us> wrote:
To be fair, Rolf, they have already found difficulty and are trying to find their way out of this torrent, and impeding their way is not in anyone's interest. John: I agree that adding the word "unsubscribe" to the footer would probably help those lost enough to be mailing the list. The existing web page does have that word on it, though. Fabio: I was unaware of the unsubscribe header... looks interesting, though I would be concerned that it seems like it might bypass the password protection currently in place, making it susceptible to abuse. However, there seem to be quite a lot of organizations using it so it may work better than my initial impression tells me it does.
FYI, if you look at the raw email messages, they all have the following in the header: X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18-1 Precedence: list List-Id: "Main R Mailing List: Primary help" <r-help.r-project.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/options/r-help>, <mailto:r-help-request at r-project.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://stat.ethz.ch/pipermail/r-help/> List-Post: <mailto:r-help at r-project.org> List-Help: <mailto:r-help-request at r-project.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help>, <mailto:r-help-request at r-project.org?subject=subscribe> Note that "List-Unsubscribe" field [http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc2369.html]. That does not seem to be enough to have Gmail add a "unsubscribe" button/link (which is indeed a useful UX feature). Google mention some more requirements in https://support.google.com/mail/answer/81126#unsub, particularly "'Precedence: bulk'", which I find on since mailing lists typically use "list" just as r-help does. I also found a mentioning on "DKIM key signature" being required [http://blog.mailchimp.com/gmails-new-unsubscribe-link-and-feedback-loop/]. So, not sure how easy it is to enable all this for the list(s) (which are handled by Mailman). My $.02 /Henrik
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jeff Newmiller The ..... ..... Go Live...
DCN:<jdnewmil at dcn.davis.ca.us> Basics: ##.#. ##.#. Live Go...
Live: OO#.. Dead: OO#.. Playing
Research Engineer (Solar/Batteries O.O#. #.O#. with
/Software/Embedded Controllers) .OO#. .OO#. rocks...1k
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sent from my phone. Please excuse my brevity.
On November 29, 2014 6:14:11 PM PST, Rolf Turner <r.turner at auckland.ac.nz> wrote:
On 30/11/14 14:16, John Sorkin wrote:
I don't see a link that is labeled "unsubscribe".
<SNIP>
On Nov 29, 2014, at 7:35 PM, Jeff Newmiller
<jdnewmil at dcn.davis.CA.us>
wrote:
In what way would that be unlike the link that is already there?
<SNIP>
On November 29, 2014 4:09:29 PM PST, John Sorkin
<jsorkin at grecc.umaryland.edu> wrote:
Requests like this appear from time to time. Would it make sense
to
add a link to the bottom of the email messages generated by the
program that is labeled and goes directly to the unsubscribe page?
Well, there is no "unsubscribe" page as such. The link given, i.e.
https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help takes you to the primary help page. That provides a link to a (password protected) page where you can handle all matters pertaining to your r-help subscription, including unsubscribing. I suppose that it might be possible to provide a link taking one directly to this second page, but: (1) It would add clutter (I'm sure we don't want to delete the link to the primary help page). (2) The password protection might get complicated; I don't know about such matters. (3) I don't think we want to waste time and resources helping people who are too stupid and illiterate to find their way to the unsubscribe facility on the basis of what is already provided. They shouldn't be R users in the first place. One needs at least two grey cells to rub together to deal with R. cheers, Rolf Turner
______________________________________________ R-help at r-project.org mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help PLEASE do read the posting guide http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code.
The headers listed below as being part of the ?raw" email messages are not seen, at least not in the messages I receive. John
John David Sorkin M.D., Ph.D. Professor of Medicine Chief, Biostatistics and Informatics University of Maryland School of Medicine Division of Gerontology and
Geriatric Medicine
Baltimore VA Medical Center 10 North Greene Street GRECC (BT/18/GR) Baltimore, MD 21201-1524 (Phone) 410-605-7119 (Fax) 410-605-7913 (Please call phone number above prior to faxing)
On Nov 29, 2014, at 11:22 PM, Henrik Bengtsson <hb at biostat.ucsf.edu>
wrote:
On Sat, Nov 29, 2014 at 7:32 PM, Jeff Newmiller <jdnewmil at dcn.davis.ca.us> wrote:
To be fair, Rolf, they have already found difficulty and are trying
to find their way out of this torrent, and impeding their way is not in anyone's interest.
John: I agree that adding the word "unsubscribe" to the footer would
probably help those lost enough to be mailing the list. The existing web page does have that word on it, though.
Fabio: I was unaware of the unsubscribe header... looks interesting,
though I would be concerned that it seems like it might bypass the password protection currently in place, making it susceptible to abuse. However, there seem to be quite a lot of organizations using it so it may work better than my initial impression tells me it does.
FYI, if you look at the raw email messages, they all have the following in the header: X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18-1 Precedence: list List-Id: "Main R Mailing List: Primary help" <r-help.r-project.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/options/r-help>, <mailto:r-help-request at r-project.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://stat.ethz.ch/pipermail/r-help/> List-Post: <mailto:r-help at r-project.org> List-Help: <mailto:r-help-request at r-project.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help>, <mailto:r-help-request at r-project.org?subject=subscribe> Note that "List-Unsubscribe" field [http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc2369.html]. That does not seem to be enough to have Gmail add a "unsubscribe" button/link (which is indeed a useful UX feature). Google mention some more requirements in https://support.google.com/mail/answer/81126#unsub, particularly "'Precedence: bulk'", which I find on since mailing lists typically use "list" just as r-help does. I also found a mentioning on "DKIM key signature" being required
[http://blog.mailchimp.com/gmails-new-unsubscribe-link-and-feedback-loop/].
So, not sure how easy it is to enable all this for the list(s) (which are handled by Mailman). My $.02 /Henrik
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jeff Newmiller The ..... ..... Go
Live...
DCN:<jdnewmil at dcn.davis.ca.us> Basics: ##.#. ##.#. Live
Go...
Live: OO#.. Dead: OO#..
Playing
Research Engineer (Solar/Batteries O.O#. #.O#. with /Software/Embedded Controllers) .OO#. .OO#.
rocks...1k
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sent from my phone. Please excuse my brevity.
On November 29, 2014 6:14:11 PM PST, Rolf Turner
<r.turner at auckland.ac.nz> wrote:
On 30/11/14 14:16, John Sorkin wrote: I don't see a link that is labeled "unsubscribe".
<SNIP>
On Nov 29, 2014, at 7:35 PM, Jeff Newmiller
<jdnewmil at dcn.davis.CA.us>
wrote:
In what way would that be unlike the link that is already there?
<SNIP>
On November 29, 2014 4:09:29 PM PST, John Sorkin
<jsorkin at grecc.umaryland.edu> wrote:
Requests like this appear from time to time. Would it make sense
to
add a link to the bottom of the email messages generated by the
program that is labeled>>> Well, there is no "unsubscribe" page as such. The link given, i.e.
https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help takes you to the primary help page. That provides a link to a
(password
protected) page where you can handle all matters pertaining to your r-help subscription, including unsubscribing. I suppose that it might be possible to provide a link taking one directly to this second page, but: (1) It would add clutter (I'm sure we don't want to delete the link
to
the primary help page). (2) The password protection might get complicated; I don't know
about
such matters. (3) I don't think we want to waste time and resources helping people who are too stupid and illiterate to find their way to the unsubscribe facility on the basis of what is already provided. They shouldn't
be
R users in the first place. One needs at least two grey cells to
rub
together to deal with R. cheers, Rolf Turner
______________________________________________ R-help at r-project.org mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help PLEASE do read the posting guide
http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html
and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code.
Confidentiality Statement: This email message, including any attachments, is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information. Any unauthorized use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply email and destroy all copies of the original message.
Dear John Perhaps you have set your mail client to hide them? Your email certainly has them when I go Options | View | Headers | All in Thunderbird. Michael
On 30/11/2014 12:05, John Sorkin wrote:
The headers listed below as being part of the ?raw" email messages are not seen, at least not in the messages I receive. John
John David Sorkin M.D., Ph.D. Professor of Medicine Chief, Biostatistics and Informatics University of Maryland School of Medicine Division of Gerontology and
Geriatric Medicine
Baltimore VA Medical Center 10 North Greene Street GRECC (BT/18/GR) Baltimore, MD 21201-1524 (Phone) 410-605-7119 (Fax) 410-605-7913 (Please call phone number above prior to faxing)
On Nov 29, 2014, at 11:22 PM, Henrik Bengtsson <hb at biostat.ucsf.edu>
wrote:
On Sat, Nov 29, 2014 at 7:32 PM, Jeff Newmiller <jdnewmil at dcn.davis.ca.us> wrote:
To be fair, Rolf, they have already found difficulty and are trying
to find their way out of this torrent, and impeding their way is not in anyone's interest.
John: I agree that adding the word "unsubscribe" to the footer would
probably help those lost enough to be mailing the list. The existing web page does have that word on it, though.
Fabio: I was unaware of the unsubscribe header... looks interesting,
though I would be concerned that it seems like it might bypass the password protection currently in place, making it susceptible to abuse. However, there seem to be quite a lot of organizations using it so it may work better than my initial impression tells me it does.
FYI, if you look at the raw email messages, they all have the following in the header: X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18-1 Precedence: list List-Id: "Main R Mailing List: Primary help" <r-help.r-project.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/options/r-help>, <mailto:r-help-request at r-project.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://stat.ethz.ch/pipermail/r-help/> List-Post: <mailto:r-help at r-project.org> List-Help: <mailto:r-help-request at r-project.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help>, <mailto:r-help-request at r-project.org?subject=subscribe> Note that "List-Unsubscribe" field [http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc2369.html]. That does not seem to be enough to have Gmail add a "unsubscribe" button/link (which is indeed a useful UX feature). Google mention some more requirements in https://support.google.com/mail/answer/81126#unsub, particularly "'Precedence: bulk'", which I find on since mailing lists typically use "list" just as r-help does. I also found a mentioning on "DKIM key signature" being required
So, not sure how easy it is to enable all this for the list(s) (which are handled by Mailman). My $.02 /Henrik
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jeff Newmiller The ..... ..... Go
Live...
DCN:<jdnewmil at dcn.davis.ca.us> Basics: ##.#. ##.#. Live
Go...
Live: OO#.. Dead: OO#..
Playing
Research Engineer (Solar/Batteries O.O#. #.O#. with /Software/Embedded Controllers) .OO#. .OO#.
rocks...1k
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sent from my phone. Please excuse my brevity.
On November 29, 2014 6:14:11 PM PST, Rolf Turner
<r.turner at auckland.ac.nz> wrote:
On 30/11/14 14:16, John Sorkin wrote: I don't see a link that is labeled "unsubscribe".
<SNIP>
On Nov 29, 2014, at 7:35 PM, Jeff Newmiller
<jdnewmil at dcn.davis.CA.us>
wrote:
In what way would that be unlike the link that is already there?
<SNIP>
On November 29, 2014 4:09:29 PM PST, John Sorkin
<jsorkin at grecc.umaryland.edu> wrote:
Requests like this appear from time to time. Would it make sense
to
add a link to the bottom of the email messages generated by the
program that is labeled>>> Well, there is no "unsubscribe" page as such. The link given, i.e.
https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help takes you to the primary help page. That provides a link to a
(password
protected) page where you can handle all matters pertaining to your r-help subscription, including unsubscribing. I suppose that it might be possible to provide a link taking one directly to this second page, but: (1) It would add clutter (I'm sure we don't want to delete the link
to
the primary help page). (2) The password protection might get complicated; I don't know
about
such matters. (3) I don't think we want to waste time and resources helping people who are too stupid and illiterate to find their way to the unsubscribe facility on the basis of what is already provided. They shouldn't
be
R users in the first place. One needs at least two grey cells to
rub
together to deal with R. cheers, Rolf Turner
______________________________________________ R-help at r-project.org mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help PLEASE do read the posting guide
http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code. Confidentiality Statement: This email message, including any attachments, is for ...{{dropped:22}}
The problem seems to be that the people who have a desire to unsubscrbe and post here are not the most sophisticated of users and expecting them to know how to track down the raw email or even to realise the message at the bottom of the post is meant to convey much of anything is not likely to occur to them. I have not had any need to look for the raw email and, while it only took a few seconds to find it in my email reader, one has to know it exists before one can look for it. I probably have not looked at a raw email for 3-5 years. Why would I? The chances of a newbie, possibly without much "computer" experience vs user of MS Office and E-mail even being aware such a thing exists is slig\t (snowballl in ... ?) A slight change to the footer seems like a good idea. John Kane Kingston ON Canada
-----Original Message----- From: info at aghmed.fsnet.co.uk Sent: Sun, 30 Nov 2014 14:02:12 +0000 To: jsorkin at grecc.umaryland.edu, hb at biostat.ucsf.edu Subject: Re: [R] please please unsubscribe!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Dear John Perhaps you have set your mail client to hide them? Your email certainly has them when I go Options | View | Headers | All in Thunderbird. Michael On 30/11/2014 12:05, John Sorkin wrote:
The headers listed below as being part of the ?raw" email messages are not seen, at least not in the messages I receive. John
John David Sorkin M.D., Ph.D. Professor of Medicine Chief, Biostatistics and Informatics University of Maryland School of Medicine Division of Gerontology and
Geriatric Medicine
Baltimore VA Medical Center 10 North Greene Street GRECC (BT/18/GR) Baltimore, MD 21201-1524 (Phone) 410-605-7119 (Fax) 410-605-7913 (Please call phone number above prior to faxing)
On Nov 29, 2014, at 11:22 PM, Henrik Bengtsson <hb at biostat.ucsf.edu>
wrote:
On Sat, Nov 29, 2014 at 7:32 PM, Jeff Newmiller <jdnewmil at dcn.davis.ca.us> wrote:
To be fair, Rolf, they have already found difficulty and are trying
to find their way out of this torrent, and impeding their way is not in anyone's interest.
John: I agree that adding the word "unsubscribe" to the footer would
probably help those lost enough to be mailing the list. The existing web page does have that word on it, though.
Fabio: I was unaware of the unsubscribe header... looks interesting,
though I would be concerned that it seems like it might bypass the password protection currently in place, making it susceptible to abuse. However, there seem to be quite a lot of organizations using it so it may work better than my initial impression tells me it does.
FYI, if you look at the raw email messages, they all have the following in the header: X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18-1 Precedence: list List-Id: "Main R Mailing List: Primary help" <r-help.r-project.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/options/r-help>, <mailto:r-help-request at r-project.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://stat.ethz.ch/pipermail/r-help/> List-Post: <mailto:r-help at r-project.org> List-Help: <mailto:r-help-request at r-project.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help>, <mailto:r-help-request at r-project.org?subject=subscribe> Note that "List-Unsubscribe" field [http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc2369.html]. That does not seem to be enough to have Gmail add a "unsubscribe" button/link (which is indeed a useful UX feature). Google mention some more requirements in https://support.google.com/mail/answer/81126#unsub, particularly "'Precedence: bulk'", which I find on since mailing lists typically use "list" just as r-help does. I also found a mentioning on "DKIM key signature" being required
So, not sure how easy it is to enable all this for the list(s) (which are handled by Mailman). My $.02 /Henrik
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jeff Newmiller The ..... ..... Go
Live...
DCN:<jdnewmil at dcn.davis.ca.us> Basics: ##.#. ##.#. Live
Go...
Live: OO#.. Dead: OO#..
Playing
Research Engineer (Solar/Batteries O.O#. #.O#. with /Software/Embedded Controllers) .OO#. .OO#.
rocks...1k
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sent from my phone. Please excuse my brevity.
On November 29, 2014 6:14:11 PM PST, Rolf Turner
<r.turner at auckland.ac.nz> wrote:
On 30/11/14 14:16, John Sorkin wrote: I don't see a link that is labeled "unsubscribe".
<SNIP>
On Nov 29, 2014, at 7:35 PM, Jeff Newmiller
<jdnewmil at dcn.davis.CA.us>
wrote:
In what way would that be unlike the link that is already there?
<SNIP>
On November 29, 2014 4:09:29 PM PST, John Sorkin
<jsorkin at grecc.umaryland.edu> wrote:
Requests like this appear from time to time. Would it make sense
to
add a link to the bottom of the email messages generated by the
program that is labeled>>> Well, there is no "unsubscribe" page as such. The link given, i.e.
https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help takes you to the primary help page. That provides a link to a
(password
protected) page where you can handle all matters pertaining to your r-help subscription, including unsubscribing. I suppose that it might be possible to provide a link taking one directly to this second page, but: (1) It would add clutter (I'm sure we don't want to delete the link
to
the primary help page). (2) The password protection might get complicated; I don't know
about
such matters. (3) I don't think we want to waste time and resources helping people who are too stupid and illiterate to find their way to the unsubscribe facility on the basis of what is already provided. They shouldn't
be
R users in the first place. One needs at least two grey cells to
rub
together to deal with R. cheers, Rolf Turner
______________________________________________ R-help at r-project.org mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help PLEASE do read the posting guide
http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code. Confidentiality Statement: This email message, including any attachments, is for ...{{dropped:22}}
______________________________________________ R-help at r-project.org mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help PLEASE do read the posting guide http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code.
____________________________________________________________ Can't remember your password? Do you need a strong and secure password? Use Password manager! It stores your passwords & protects your account.
I agree with this sentiment and suggestion. I can not see much of a downside to it, with the exception that most of these "unsophisticated" users will probably not even bother reading it. But then we would all be back in the current situation, not worse. Ranjan
On Sat, 29 Nov 2014 21:58:23 -0500 listserve <tomuxiong at gmail.com> wrote:
Any mailing list which respects its recipients makes unsubscribing as easy as possible. If users are having trouble doing so, it's clearly not easy enough. I think putting a directly link in every message is certainly the right thing to do. On 11/29/2014 09:14 PM, Rolf Turner wrote:
On 30/11/14 14:16, John Sorkin wrote:
I don't see a link that is labeled "unsubscribe".
<SNIP>
On Nov 29, 2014, at 7:35 PM, Jeff Newmiller <jdnewmil at dcn.davis.CA.us>
wrote:
In what way would that be unlike the link that is already there?
<SNIP>
On November 29, 2014 4:09:29 PM PST, John Sorkin
<jsorkin at grecc.umaryland.edu> wrote:
Requests like this appear from time to time. Would it make sense to
add a link to the bottom of the email messages generated by the mail program that is labeled and goes directly to the unsubscribe page?
Well, there is no "unsubscribe" page as such. The link given, i.e.
https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help takes you to the primary help page. That provides a link to a (password protected) page where you can handle all matters pertaining to your r-help subscription, including unsubscribing. I suppose that it might be possible to provide a link taking one directly to this second page, but: (1) It would add clutter (I'm sure we don't want to delete the link to the primary help page). (2) The password protection might get complicated; I don't know about such matters. (3) I don't think we want to waste time and resources helping people who are too stupid and illiterate to find their way to the unsubscribe facility on the basis of what is already provided. They shouldn't be R users in the first place. One needs at least two grey cells to rub together to deal with R. cheers, Rolf Turner
______________________________________________ R-help at r-project.org mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help PLEASE do read the posting guide http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code.
Important Notice: This mailbox is ignored: e-mails are set to be deleted on receipt. Please respond to the mailing list if appropriate. For those needing to send personal or professional e-mail, please use appropriate addresses. ____________________________________________________________ FREE 3D EARTH SCREENSAVER - Watch the Earth right on your desktop!
My bad, r-help messages indeed have the unsubscribe header set. Also, at least for Gmail a "Precedence: bulk" should be set in order to this mechanism to work, as Henrik pointed out. Currently the raw headers set precedence to "list". I don't know the technical differences of list and bulk, so maybe switching from one to the other can impose some tradeoffs. So I see three possibilities: leave as it is now, switch precedence to "bulk" if it doesn't interfere on list behavior and have at least a small unsubscribe button on some email clients or add an unsubscribe link to footer. #! F?bio On Sun, Nov 30, 2014 at 12:30 PM, Ranjan Maitra
<maitra.mbox.ignored at inbox.com> wrote:
I agree with this sentiment and suggestion. I can not see much of a downside to it, with the exception that most of these "unsophisticated" users will probably not even bother reading it. But then we would all be back in the current situation, not worse. Ranjan On Sat, 29 Nov 2014 21:58:23 -0500 listserve <tomuxiong at gmail.com> wrote:
Any mailing list which respects its recipients makes unsubscribing as easy as possible. If users are having trouble doing so, it's clearly not easy enough. I think putting a directly link in every message is certainly the right thing to do. On 11/29/2014 09:14 PM, Rolf Turner wrote:
On 30/11/14 14:16, John Sorkin wrote:
I don't see a link that is labeled "unsubscribe".
<SNIP>
On Nov 29, 2014, at 7:35 PM, Jeff Newmiller <jdnewmil at dcn.davis.CA.us>
wrote:
In what way would that be unlike the link that is already there?
<SNIP>
On November 29, 2014 4:09:29 PM PST, John Sorkin
<jsorkin at grecc.umaryland.edu> wrote:
Requests like this appear from time to time. Would it make sense to
add a link to the bottom of the email messages generated by the mail program that is labeled and goes directly to the unsubscribe page?
Well, there is no "unsubscribe" page as such. The link given, i.e.
https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help takes you to the primary help page. That provides a link to a (password protected) page where you can handle all matters pertaining to your r-help subscription, including unsubscribing. I suppose that it might be possible to provide a link taking one directly to this second page, but: (1) It would add clutter (I'm sure we don't want to delete the link to the primary help page). (2) The password protection might get complicated; I don't know about such matters. (3) I don't think we want to waste time and resources helping people who are too stupid and illiterate to find their way to the unsubscribe facility on the basis of what is already provided. They shouldn't be R users in the first place. One needs at least two grey cells to rub together to deal with R. cheers, Rolf Turner
______________________________________________ R-help at r-project.org mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help PLEASE do read the posting guide http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code.
-- Important Notice: This mailbox is ignored: e-mails are set to be deleted on receipt. Please respond to the mailing list if appropriate. For those needing to send personal or professional e-mail, please use appropriate addresses.
____________________________________________________________ FREE 3D EARTH SCREENSAVER - Watch the Earth right on your desktop! ______________________________________________ R-help at r-project.org mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help PLEASE do read the posting guide http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code.
My reply on "raw" email headers was regarding a suggestion on having Gmail and similar clients automatically to add an easy-to-spot unsubscribe link/button. No one here suggested the user him-/herself should read those headers. Henrik
On Nov 30, 2014 6:16 AM, "John Kane" <jrkrideau at inbox.com> wrote:
The problem seems to be that the people who have a desire to unsubscrbe and post here are not the most sophisticated of users and expecting them to know how to track down the raw email or even to realise the message at the bottom of the post is meant to convey much of anything is not likely to occur to them. I have not had any need to look for the raw email and, while it only took a few seconds to find it in my email reader, one has to know it exists before one can look for it. I probably have not looked at a raw email for 3-5 years. Why would I? The chances of a newbie, possibly without much "computer" experience vs user of MS Office and E-mail even being aware such a thing exists is slig\t (snowballl in ... ?) A slight change to the footer seems like a good idea. John Kane Kingston ON Canada
-----Original Message----- From: info at aghmed.fsnet.co.uk Sent: Sun, 30 Nov 2014 14:02:12 +0000 To: jsorkin at grecc.umaryland.edu, hb at biostat.ucsf.edu Subject: Re: [R] please please unsubscribe!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Dear John Perhaps you have set your mail client to hide them? Your email certainly has them when I go Options | View | Headers | All in Thunderbird. Michael On 30/11/2014 12:05, John Sorkin wrote:
The headers listed below as being part of the ?raw" email messages are not seen, at least not in the messages I receive. John
John David Sorkin M.D., Ph.D. Professor of Medicine Chief, Biostatistics and Informatics University of Maryland School of Medicine Division of Gerontology and
Geriatric Medicine
Baltimore VA Medical Center 10 North Greene Street GRECC (BT/18/GR) Baltimore, MD 21201-1524 (Phone) 410-605-7119 (Fax) 410-605-7913 (Please call phone number above prior to faxing)
On Nov 29, 2014, at 11:22 PM, Henrik Bengtsson <hb at biostat.ucsf.edu>
wrote:
On Sat, Nov 29, 2014 at 7:32 PM, Jeff Newmiller <jdnewmil at dcn.davis.ca.us> wrote:
To be fair, Rolf, they have already found difficulty and are trying
to find their way out of this torrent, and impeding their way is not in anyone's interest.
John: I agree that adding the word "unsubscribe" to the footer would
probably help those lost enough to be mailing the list. The existing web page does have that word on it, though.
Fabio: I was unaware of the unsubscribe header... looks interesting,
though I would be concerned that it seems like it might bypass the password protection currently in place, making it susceptible to abuse. However, there seem to be quite a lot of organizations using it so it may work better than my initial impression tells me it does.
FYI, if you look at the raw email messages, they all have the following in the header: X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18-1 Precedence: list List-Id: "Main R Mailing List: Primary help" <r-help.r-project.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/options/r-help>, <mailto:r-help-request at r-project.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://stat.ethz.ch/pipermail/r-help/> List-Post: <mailto:r-help at r-project.org> List-Help: <mailto:r-help-request at r-project.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help>, <mailto:r-help-request at r-project.org?subject=subscribe> Note that "List-Unsubscribe" field [http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc2369.html]. That does not seem to be enough to have Gmail add a "unsubscribe" button/link (which is indeed a useful UX feature). Google mention some more requirements in https://support.google.com/mail/answer/81126#unsub, particularly "'Precedence: bulk'", which I find on since mailing lists typically use "list" just as r-help does. I also found a mentioning on "DKIM key signature" being required
[
So, not sure how easy it is to enable all this for the list(s) (which are handled by Mailman). My $.02 /Henrik
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jeff Newmiller The ..... ..... Go
Live...
DCN:<jdnewmil at dcn.davis.ca.us> Basics: ##.#. ##.#. Live
Go...
Live: OO#.. Dead: OO#..
Playing
Research Engineer (Solar/Batteries O.O#. #.O#. with /Software/Embedded Controllers) .OO#. .OO#.
rocks...1k
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sent from my phone. Please excuse my brevity.
On November 29, 2014 6:14:11 PM PST, Rolf Turner
<r.turner at auckland.ac.nz> wrote:
On 30/11/14 14:16, John Sorkin wrote: I don't see a link that is labeled "unsubscribe".
<SNIP>
On Nov 29, 2014, at 7:35 PM, Jeff Newmiller
<jdnewmil at dcn.davis.CA.us>
wrote:
In what way would that be unlike the link that is already there?
<SNIP>
On November 29, 2014 4:09:29 PM PST, John Sorkin
<jsorkin at grecc.umaryland.edu> wrote:
Requests like this appear from time to time. Would it make sense
to
add a link to the bottom of the email messages generated by the
program that is labeled>>> Well, there is no "unsubscribe" page as such. The link given, i.e.
https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help takes you to the primary help page. That provides a link to a
(password
protected) page where you can handle all matters pertaining to your r-help subscription, including unsubscribing. I suppose that it might be possible to provide a link taking one directly to this second page, but: (1) It would add clutter (I'm sure we don't want to delete the link
to
the primary help page). (2) The password protection might get complicated; I don't know
about
such matters. (3) I don't think we want to waste time and resources helping people who are too stupid and illiterate to find their way to the unsubscribe facility on the basis of what is already provided. They shouldn't
be
R users in the first place. One needs at least two grey cells to
rub
together to deal with R. cheers, Rolf Turner
______________________________________________ R-help at r-project.org mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help PLEASE do read the posting guide
http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code. Confidentiality Statement: This email message, including any attachments, is for ...{{dropped:22}}
______________________________________________ R-help at r-project.org mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help PLEASE do read the posting guide http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code.
____________________________________________________________ Can't remember your password? Do you need a strong and secure password? Use Password manager! It stores your passwords & protects your account. Check it out at http://mysecurelogon.com/password-manager
No one is suggesting that anyone read raw headers. This is a mechanism that requires features on both the list server end and the client end... but if newbies are using modern facilities then that would be exactly their situation. Please read up on the mechanism at least a little bit before criticizing it.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jeff Newmiller The ..... ..... Go Live...
DCN:<jdnewmil at dcn.davis.ca.us> Basics: ##.#. ##.#. Live Go...
Live: OO#.. Dead: OO#.. Playing
Research Engineer (Solar/Batteries O.O#. #.O#. with
/Software/Embedded Controllers) .OO#. .OO#. rocks...1k
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sent from my phone. Please excuse my brevity.
On November 30, 2014 6:16:55 AM PST, John Kane <jrkrideau at inbox.com> wrote:
The problem seems to be that the people who have a desire to unsubscrbe and post here are not the most sophisticated of users and expecting them to know how to track down the raw email or even to realise the message at the bottom of the post is meant to convey much of anything is not likely to occur to them. I have not had any need to look for the raw email and, while it only took a few seconds to find it in my email reader, one has to know it exists before one can look for it. I probably have not looked at a raw email for 3-5 years. Why would I? The chances of a newbie, possibly without much "computer" experience vs user of MS Office and E-mail even being aware such a thing exists is slig\t (snowballl in ... ?) A slight change to the footer seems like a good idea. John Kane Kingston ON Canada
-----Original Message----- From: info at aghmed.fsnet.co.uk Sent: Sun, 30 Nov 2014 14:02:12 +0000 To: jsorkin at grecc.umaryland.edu, hb at biostat.ucsf.edu Subject: Re: [R] please please unsubscribe!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Dear John Perhaps you have set your mail client to hide them? Your email
certainly
has them when I go Options | View | Headers | All in Thunderbird. Michael On 30/11/2014 12:05, John Sorkin wrote:
The headers listed below as being part of the ?raw" email messages
are
not seen, at least not in the messages I receive. John
John David Sorkin M.D., Ph.D. Professor of Medicine Chief, Biostatistics and Informatics University of Maryland School of Medicine Division of Gerontology
and
Geriatric Medicine
Baltimore VA Medical Center 10 North Greene Street GRECC (BT/18/GR) Baltimore, MD 21201-1524 (Phone) 410-605-7119 (Fax) 410-605-7913 (Please call phone number above prior to faxing)
On Nov 29, 2014, at 11:22 PM, Henrik Bengtsson
<hb at biostat.ucsf.edu>
wrote:
On Sat, Nov 29, 2014 at 7:32 PM, Jeff Newmiller <jdnewmil at dcn.davis.ca.us> wrote:
To be fair, Rolf, they have already found difficulty and are
trying
to find their way out of this torrent, and impeding their way is not
in
anyone's interest.
John: I agree that adding the word "unsubscribe" to the footer
would
probably help those lost enough to be mailing the list. The existing
web
page does have that word on it, though.
Fabio: I was unaware of the unsubscribe header... looks
interesting,
though I would be concerned that it seems like it might bypass the password protection currently in place, making it susceptible to
abuse.
However, there seem to be quite a lot of organizations using it so
it
may work better than my initial impression tells me it does.
FYI, if you look at the raw email messages, they all have the following in the header: X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18-1 Precedence: list List-Id: "Main R Mailing List: Primary help" <r-help.r-project.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/options/r-help>, <mailto:r-help-request at r-project.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://stat.ethz.ch/pipermail/r-help/> List-Post: <mailto:r-help at r-project.org> List-Help: <mailto:r-help-request at r-project.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help>, <mailto:r-help-request at r-project.org?subject=subscribe> Note that "List-Unsubscribe" field [http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc2369.html]. That does not seem to be enough to have Gmail add a "unsubscribe" button/link (which is
indeed
a useful UX feature). Google mention some more requirements in https://support.google.com/mail/answer/81126#unsub, particularly "'Precedence: bulk'", which I find on since mailing lists typically use "list" just as r-help does. I also found a mentioning on "DKIM key signature" being required
So, not sure how easy it is to enable all this for the list(s)
(which
are handled by Mailman). My $.02 /Henrik
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jeff Newmiller The ..... .....
Go
Live...
DCN:<jdnewmil at dcn.davis.ca.us> Basics: ##.#. ##.#.
Live
Go...
Live: OO#.. Dead: OO#..
Playing
Research Engineer (Solar/Batteries O.O#. #.O#.
with
/Software/Embedded Controllers) .OO#. .OO#.
rocks...1k
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sent from my phone. Please excuse my brevity.
On November 29, 2014 6:14:11 PM PST, Rolf Turner
<r.turner at auckland.ac.nz> wrote:
On 30/11/14 14:16, John Sorkin wrote: I don't see a link that is labeled "unsubscribe".
<SNIP>
On Nov 29, 2014, at 7:35 PM, Jeff Newmiller
<jdnewmil at dcn.davis.CA.us>
wrote:
In what way would that be unlike the link that is already
there?
<SNIP>
On November 29, 2014 4:09:29 PM PST, John Sorkin
<jsorkin at grecc.umaryland.edu> wrote:
Requests like this appear from time to time. Would it make
sense
to
add a link to the bottom of the email messages generated by
the
program that is labeled>>> Well, there is no "unsubscribe"
page as
such. The link given, i.e.
https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help takes you to the primary help page. That provides a link to a
(password
protected) page where you can handle all matters pertaining to
your
r-help subscription, including unsubscribing. I suppose that it might be possible to provide a link taking one directly to this second page, but: (1) It would add clutter (I'm sure we don't want to delete the
link
to
the primary help page). (2) The password protection might get complicated; I don't know
about
such matters. (3) I don't think we want to waste time and resources helping
people
who are too stupid and illiterate to find their way to the
unsubscribe
facility on the basis of what is already provided. They
shouldn't
be
R users in the first place. One needs at least two grey cells to
rub
together to deal with R. cheers, Rolf Turner
______________________________________________ R-help at r-project.org mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help PLEASE do read the posting guide
http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code. Confidentiality Statement: This email message, including any attachments, is for
...{{dropped:22}}
______________________________________________ R-help at r-project.org mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help PLEASE do read the posting guide http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code.
____________________________________________________________ Can't remember your password? Do you need a strong and secure password? Use Password manager! It stores your passwords & protects your account. ______________________________________________ R-help at r-project.org mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help PLEASE do read the posting guide http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code.
On 30/11/2014, 9:56 AM, F?bio Magalh?es wrote:
My bad, r-help messages indeed have the unsubscribe header set. Also, at least for Gmail a "Precedence: bulk" should be set in order to this mechanism to work, as Henrik pointed out. Currently the raw headers set precedence to "list". I don't know the technical differences of list and bulk, so maybe switching from one to the other can impose some tradeoffs.
It would break everyone's filters that currently work, to help Gmail's filters that don't work. Seems like a pretty bad tradeoff to me. Why don't you complain to Google about Gmail? Duncan Murdoch
So I see three possibilities: leave as it is now, switch precedence to "bulk" if it doesn't interfere on list behavior and have at least a small unsubscribe button on some email clients or add an unsubscribe link to footer. #! F?bio On Sun, Nov 30, 2014 at 12:30 PM, Ranjan Maitra <maitra.mbox.ignored at inbox.com> wrote:
I agree with this sentiment and suggestion. I can not see much of a downside to it, with the exception that most of these "unsophisticated" users will probably not even bother reading it. But then we would all be back in the current situation, not worse. Ranjan On Sat, 29 Nov 2014 21:58:23 -0500 listserve <tomuxiong at gmail.com> wrote:
Any mailing list which respects its recipients makes unsubscribing as easy as possible. If users are having trouble doing so, it's clearly not easy enough. I think putting a directly link in every message is certainly the right thing to do. On 11/29/2014 09:14 PM, Rolf Turner wrote:
On 30/11/14 14:16, John Sorkin wrote:
I don't see a link that is labeled "unsubscribe".
<SNIP>
On Nov 29, 2014, at 7:35 PM, Jeff Newmiller <jdnewmil at dcn.davis.CA.us>
wrote:
In what way would that be unlike the link that is already there?
<SNIP>
On November 29, 2014 4:09:29 PM PST, John Sorkin
<jsorkin at grecc.umaryland.edu> wrote:
Requests like this appear from time to time. Would it make sense to
add a link to the bottom of the email messages generated by the mail program that is labeled and goes directly to the unsubscribe page?
Well, there is no "unsubscribe" page as such. The link given, i.e.
https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help takes you to the primary help page. That provides a link to a (password protected) page where you can handle all matters pertaining to your r-help subscription, including unsubscribing. I suppose that it might be possible to provide a link taking one directly to this second page, but: (1) It would add clutter (I'm sure we don't want to delete the link to the primary help page). (2) The password protection might get complicated; I don't know about such matters. (3) I don't think we want to waste time and resources helping people who are too stupid and illiterate to find their way to the unsubscribe facility on the basis of what is already provided. They shouldn't be R users in the first place. One needs at least two grey cells to rub together to deal with R. cheers, Rolf Turner
______________________________________________ R-help at r-project.org mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help PLEASE do read the posting guide http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code.
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______________________________________________ R-help at r-project.org mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help PLEASE do read the posting guide http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code.
Duncan, You are right, I've assumed precedence wouldn't break anything, but looking a little more into this issue it seems some people use filters based on this header and Gmail seems to be the only client that needs bulk precedence set to make unsubscribe link work. I think the question boils down to putting an unsubscribe link on footer or not. #! F?bio On Sun, Nov 30, 2014 at 1:20 PM, Duncan Murdoch
<murdoch.duncan at gmail.com> wrote:
On 30/11/2014, 9:56 AM, F?bio Magalh?es wrote:
My bad, r-help messages indeed have the unsubscribe header set. Also, at least for Gmail a "Precedence: bulk" should be set in order to this mechanism to work, as Henrik pointed out. Currently the raw headers set precedence to "list". I don't know the technical differences of list and bulk, so maybe switching from one to the other can impose some tradeoffs.
It would break everyone's filters that currently work, to help Gmail's filters that don't work. Seems like a pretty bad tradeoff to me. Why don't you complain to Google about Gmail? Duncan Murdoch
So I see three possibilities: leave as it is now, switch precedence to "bulk" if it doesn't interfere on list behavior and have at least a small unsubscribe button on some email clients or add an unsubscribe link to footer. #! F?bio On Sun, Nov 30, 2014 at 12:30 PM, Ranjan Maitra <maitra.mbox.ignored at inbox.com> wrote:
I agree with this sentiment and suggestion. I can not see much of a downside to it, with the exception that most of these "unsophisticated" users will probably not even bother reading it. But then we would all be back in the current situation, not worse. Ranjan On Sat, 29 Nov 2014 21:58:23 -0500 listserve <tomuxiong at gmail.com> wrote:
Any mailing list which respects its recipients makes unsubscribing as easy as possible. If users are having trouble doing so, it's clearly not easy enough. I think putting a directly link in every message is certainly the right thing to do. On 11/29/2014 09:14 PM, Rolf Turner wrote:
On 30/11/14 14:16, John Sorkin wrote:
I don't see a link that is labeled "unsubscribe".
<SNIP>
On Nov 29, 2014, at 7:35 PM, Jeff Newmiller <jdnewmil at dcn.davis.CA.us>
wrote:
In what way would that be unlike the link that is already there?
<SNIP>
On November 29, 2014 4:09:29 PM PST, John Sorkin
<jsorkin at grecc.umaryland.edu> wrote:
Requests like this appear from time to time. Would it make sense to
add a link to the bottom of the email messages generated by the mail program that is labeled and goes directly to the unsubscribe page?
Well, there is no "unsubscribe" page as such. The link given, i.e.
https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help takes you to the primary help page. That provides a link to a (password protected) page where you can handle all matters pertaining to your r-help subscription, including unsubscribing. I suppose that it might be possible to provide a link taking one directly to this second page, but: (1) It would add clutter (I'm sure we don't want to delete the link to the primary help page). (2) The password protection might get complicated; I don't know about such matters. (3) I don't think we want to waste time and resources helping people who are too stupid and illiterate to find their way to the unsubscribe facility on the basis of what is already provided. They shouldn't be R users in the first place. One needs at least two grey cells to rub together to deal with R. cheers, Rolf Turner
______________________________________________ R-help at r-project.org mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help PLEASE do read the posting guide http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code.
-- Important Notice: This mailbox is ignored: e-mails are set to be deleted on receipt. Please respond to the mailing list if appropriate. For those needing to send personal or professional e-mail, please use appropriate addresses.
____________________________________________________________ FREE 3D EARTH SCREENSAVER - Watch the Earth right on your desktop! ______________________________________________ R-help at r-project.org mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help PLEASE do read the posting guide http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code.
______________________________________________ R-help at r-project.org mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help PLEASE do read the posting guide http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code.
On 30 Nov 2014, at 16:51 , F?bio Magalh?es <fmagalhaes at gmail.com> wrote: Duncan, You are right, I've assumed precedence wouldn't break anything, but looking a little more into this issue it seems some people use filters based on this header and Gmail seems to be the only client that needs bulk precedence set to make unsubscribe link work. I think the question boils down to putting an unsubscribe link on footer or not.
Yes, I see two main issues (a) would people actually take the hint, whatever we put in the footer? (b) there's a limit to how much claptrap everyone else want to see in each and every post However, what about just doing something like
______________________________________________ R-help at r-project.org mailing list. ADMINISTRATIVE INTERFACE (INCL. UNSUBSCRIPTION) AT https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help PLEASE do read the posting guide http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code.
(Not actually using all-caps of course) -pd
Peter Dalgaard, Professor, Center for Statistics, Copenhagen Business School Solbjerg Plads 3, 2000 Frederiksberg, Denmark Phone: (+45)38153501 Email: pd.mes at cbs.dk Priv: PDalgd at gmail.com
On Sun, 30 Nov 2014, peter dalgaard wrote:
(a) would people actually take the hint, whatever we put in the footer?
Only some actually read everything and look for help at the bottom of the message. Since Microsoft users almost always top post I wonder if they even see the bottom of a message from a mail list.
However, what about just doing something like
______________________________________________ R-help at r-project.org mailing list. ADMINISTRATIVE INTERFACE (INCL. UNSUBSCRIPTION) AT
(Not actually using all-caps of course)
Or, just a line with TO UNSUBSCRIBE: see https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help Uppercase to catch the eye of the reader. Rich
Following on Rich and Peter, is it practical for the list to put it at the top then, before the R-message? Something like: TO UNSUBSCRIBE from the list: see https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help And then continue on for each R message. Because top-posting has pretty much taken over, the best efforts of puritans notwithstanding, putting stuff at the bottom is unlikely to evoke much attention, and especially so in our 140-character-3-second attention-span world. As an aside, if I were the OP, and wanted to unsubscribe, the volume of the e-mail messages on this topic alone would have been punishment enough for the original post:-) Best wishes, Ranjan ____________________________________________________________ FREE 3D MARINE AQUARIUM SCREENSAVER - Watch dolphins, sharks & orcas on your desktop!