Just for fun
This small program gives negative Sum of Sq in anova (with R versions
2.9.2 and 2.10.0) (linux 32 kernel 2.6.29.6-smp slackware 13.0) :
y = c(3.6, 5.0, 5.0, 4.6, 4.5, 4.3, 4.5, 5.1, 4.5, 4.3)
trans = as.factor(c("NT","NT","NT","NT","NT","T","T","T","T","T"))
lc = lm(y ~ trans)
l1 = lm(y ~ 1)
anova(l1,lc)
# Analysis of Variance Table
#
# Model 1: y ~ 1
# Model 2: y ~ trans
# Res.Df RSS Df Sum of Sq F Pr(>F)
# 1 9 1.744
# 2 8 1.744 1 -2.220e-16 # negative Sum of Sq ????
anova(lc) # is OK
# 2.9.2 version
# Analysis of Variance Table
#
# Response: y
# Df Sum Sq Mean Sq F value Pr(>F)
# trans 1 8.214e-32 8.214e-32 3.768e-31 1
# Residuals 8 1.744 0.218
# 2.10.0 version
# Analysis of Variance Table
#
# Response: y
# Df Sum Sq Mean Sq F value Pr(>F)
# trans 1 0.000 0.000 0 1
# Residuals 8 1.744 0.218
anova error
5 messages · Jean Coursol, Peter Ehlers, Ben Bolker +2 more
It might be a good idea not to use an outdated version of R. I don't see your "problem" in R 2.12.0. Peter Ehlers
On 2010-12-01 05:44, Jean.Coursol at math.u-psud.fr wrote:
Just for fun
This small program gives negative Sum of Sq in anova (with R versions
2.9.2 and 2.10.0) (linux 32 kernel 2.6.29.6-smp slackware 13.0) :
y = c(3.6, 5.0, 5.0, 4.6, 4.5, 4.3, 4.5, 5.1, 4.5, 4.3)
trans = as.factor(c("NT","NT","NT","NT","NT","T","T","T","T","T"))
lc = lm(y ~ trans)
l1 = lm(y ~ 1)
anova(l1,lc)
# Analysis of Variance Table
#
# Model 1: y ~ 1
# Model 2: y ~ trans
# Res.Df RSS Df Sum of Sq F Pr(>F)
# 1 9 1.744
# 2 8 1.744 1 -2.220e-16 # negative Sum of Sq ????
anova(lc) # is OK
# 2.9.2 version
# Analysis of Variance Table
#
# Response: y
# Df Sum Sq Mean Sq F value Pr(>F)
# trans 1 8.214e-32 8.214e-32 3.768e-31 1
# Residuals 8 1.744 0.218
# 2.10.0 version
# Analysis of Variance Table
#
# Response: y
# Df Sum Sq Mean Sq F value Pr(>F)
# trans 1 0.000 0.000 0 1
# Residuals 8 1.744 0.218
______________________________________________ R-help at r-project.org mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help PLEASE do read the posting guide http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code.
Peter Ehlers <ehlers <at> ucalgary.ca> writes:
It might be a good idea not to use an outdated version of R. I don't see your "problem" in R 2.12.0. Peter Ehlers On 2010-12-01 05:44, Jean.Coursol <at> math.u-psud.fr wrote:
Just for fun This small program gives negative Sum of Sq in anova (with R versions 2.9.2 and 2.10.0) (linux 32 kernel 2.6.29.6-smp slackware 13.0) :
These are essentially just round-off error in a problem with zero noise: there is absolutely no practical difference between 2e-16 and 2e16. If you really need to do something with these values that will break if they are negative, see ?zapsmall ...
On Dec 1, 2010, at 9:18 AM, Peter Ehlers wrote:
It might be a good idea not to use an outdated version of R. I don't see your "problem" in R 2.12.0.
Furthermore isn't it a bit <something> to be asking why the sign on a number that is effectively zero happens to be negative? I would think that FAQ 7.31 applied even back in the 2.9 and 2.10 era. (I still get a negative number in R 2.12.0 that is effectively zero, -4.4409e-16, and rounded is exactly the same as the difference between sqrt(2)^2 and 2 in the FAQ entry, so if it were supposed to be "fixed" (which I'm not saying it should be) then it didn't occur until very recently.)
David.
>
> Peter Ehlers
>
> On 2010-12-01 05:44, Jean.Coursol at math.u-psud.fr wrote:
>> Just for fun
>>
>> This small program gives negative Sum of Sq in anova (with R versions
>> 2.9.2 and 2.10.0) (linux 32 kernel 2.6.29.6-smp slackware 13.0) :
>>
>> y = c(3.6, 5.0, 5.0, 4.6, 4.5, 4.3, 4.5, 5.1, 4.5, 4.3)
>> trans = as.factor(c("NT","NT","NT","NT","NT","T","T","T","T","T"))
>> lc = lm(y ~ trans)
>> l1 = lm(y ~ 1)
>>
>> anova(l1,lc)
>>
>> # Analysis of Variance Table
>> #
>> # Model 1: y ~ 1
>> # Model 2: y ~ trans
>> # Res.Df RSS Df Sum of Sq F Pr(>F)
>> # 1 9 1.744
>> # 2 8 1.744 1 -2.220e-16 # negative Sum of Sq ????
>>
>> anova(lc) # is OK
>>
>> # 2.9.2 version
>> # Analysis of Variance Table
>> #
>> # Response: y
>> # Df Sum Sq Mean Sq F value Pr(>F)
>> # trans 1 8.214e-32 8.214e-32 3.768e-31 1
>> # Residuals 8 1.744 0.218
>>
>> # 2.10.0 version
>> # Analysis of Variance Table
>> #
>> # Response: y
>> # Df Sum Sq Mean Sq F value Pr(>F)
>> # trans 1 0.000 0.000 0 1
>> # Residuals 8 1.744 0.218
>>
>> ______________________________________________
>> R-help at r-project.org mailing list
>> https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help
>> PLEASE do read the posting guide http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html
>> and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code.
>
> ______________________________________________
> R-help at r-project.org mailing list
> https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help
> PLEASE do read the posting guide http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html
> and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code.
David Winsemius, MD
West Hartford, CT
On Wed, Dec 1, 2010 at 9:02 AM, Ben Bolker <bbolker at gmail.com> wrote:
Peter Ehlers <ehlers <at> ucalgary.ca> writes:
It might be a good idea not to use an outdated version of R. I don't see your "problem" in R 2.12.0. Peter Ehlers On 2010-12-01 05:44, Jean.Coursol <at> math.u-psud.fr wrote:
Just for fun This small program gives negative Sum of Sq in anova (with R versions 2.9.2 and 2.10.0) (linux 32 kernel 2.6.29.6-smp slackware 13.0) :
?These are essentially just round-off error in a problem with zero noise: there is absolutely no practical difference between 2e-16 and 2e16.
Well, actually there is a big difference between 2e-16 and 2e16. I think you meant to write 2e-16 and -2e-16
If you really need to do something with these values that will break if they are negative, see ?zapsmall ...
______________________________________________ R-help at r-project.org mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help PLEASE do read the posting guide http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code.