-----Original Message----- From: ... Robert Baer Sent: Friday, September 02, 2005 11:30 AM
....
.... It is wrong to blame ANY tool for our own shortcomings!
Surely a fortune! David L. Reiner
The Perils of PowerPoint
6 messages · davidr@rhotrading.com, Achim Zeileis, Sean O'Riordain +3 more
On Fri, 2 Sep 2005 12:27:45 -0500 davidr at rhotrading.com wrote:
-----Original Message----- From: ... Robert Baer Sent: Friday, September 02, 2005 11:30 AM
....
.... It is wrong to blame ANY tool for our own shortcomings!
Surely a fortune!
thx, added to the devel-version of fortunes. But allow me one remark: Although the above is certainly true, there are computational tools that help us better to realize or avoid our own shortcomings whereas others will make it harder to arrive at the right conclusions. I agree that PowerPoint cannot be blamed for the crash of the space shuttle, but I also see the point that the way presentations are generated in PowerPoint (or graphics in Excel) can easily tempt people into producing presentations/graphics that conceal what is important. This is certainly not an excuse, but I think some criticism (even if phrased a bit provocatively) should be allowed. just my EUR 0.02. Z
David L. Reiner
______________________________________________ R-help at stat.math.ethz.ch mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help PLEASE do read the posting guide! http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html
I can't lay my hands n it at the moment - its around here somewhere, but in "Numerical Methods That Work" by Forman Acton, the author points out that "the result of computation should be insight, not numbers".... ps. an excellent book if you haven't seen it. https://enterprise.maa.org/ecomtpro/Timssnet/products/TNT_products.cfm cheers, Sean
On 02/09/05, Achim Zeileis <Achim.Zeileis at wu-wien.ac.at> wrote:
On Fri, 2 Sep 2005 12:27:45 -0500 davidr at rhotrading.com wrote:
-----Original Message----- From: ... Robert Baer Sent: Friday, September 02, 2005 11:30 AM
....
.... It is wrong to blame ANY tool for our own shortcomings!
Surely a fortune!
thx, added to the devel-version of fortunes. But allow me one remark: Although the above is certainly true, there are computational tools that help us better to realize or avoid our own shortcomings whereas others will make it harder to arrive at the right conclusions. I agree that PowerPoint cannot be blamed for the crash of the space shuttle, but I also see the point that the way presentations are generated in PowerPoint (or graphics in Excel) can easily tempt people into producing presentations/graphics that conceal what is important. This is certainly not an excuse, but I think some criticism (even if phrased a bit provocatively) should be allowed. just my EUR 0.02. Z
David L. Reiner
______________________________________________ R-help at stat.math.ethz.ch mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help PLEASE do read the posting guide! http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html
______________________________________________ R-help at stat.math.ethz.ch mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help PLEASE do read the posting guide! http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html
On 02-Sep-05 Sean O'Riordain wrote:
I can't lay my hands n it at the moment - its around here somewhere, but in "Numerical Methods That Work" by Forman Acton, the author points out that "the result of computation should be insight, not numbers".... ps. an excellent book if you haven't seen it. https://enterprise.maa.org/ecomtpro/Timssnet/products/TNT_products.cfm cheers, Sean
No doubt you're correct -- but I associate it with Richard Hamming (title page of "Numerical Methods for Scientists and Engineers" as I recall -- yes, for me too "it's around here somewhere" -- another really excellent book) where he words it: "The purpose of computing is insight, not numbers." to which he adds: "The purpose of computing numbers is not yet in sight." By the way, the Washington Post/Minneapolis Star Tribune article is somewhat reminiscent of a short (15 min) broadcast on BBC Radio 4 back on October 18 2004 15:45-16:00 called "Microsoft Powerpoint and the Decline of Civilisation" which explores similar themes and also frequently quotes Tufte. Unfortunately it lapsed for ever from "Listen Again" after the statutory week, so I can't point you to a replay. (However, I have carefully preserved the cassette recording I made). We are not, of course, going Off Topic here. If, in R, you can not indefinitely extend a tangent, then it's time to extend R. (Oh dear, I feel a fortune coming on ... ) Best wishes to all, Ted.
On 02/09/05, Achim Zeileis <Achim.Zeileis at wu-wien.ac.at> wrote:
On Fri, 2 Sep 2005 12:27:45 -0500 davidr at rhotrading.com wrote:
-----Original Message----- From: ... Robert Baer Sent: Friday, September 02, 2005 11:30 AM
....
.... It is wrong to blame ANY tool for our own shortcomings!
Surely a fortune!
thx, added to the devel-version of fortunes. But allow me one remark: Although the above is certainly true, there are computational tools that help us better to realize or avoid our own shortcomings whereas others will make it harder to arrive at the right conclusions. I agree that PowerPoint cannot be blamed for the crash of the space shuttle, but I also see the point that the way presentations are generated in PowerPoint (or graphics in Excel) can easily tempt people into producing presentations/graphics that conceal what is important. This is certainly not an excuse, but I think some criticism (even if phrased a bit provocatively) should be allowed. just my EUR 0.02. Z
David L. Reiner
______________________________________________ R-help at stat.math.ethz.ch mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help PLEASE do read the posting guide! http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html
______________________________________________ R-help at stat.math.ethz.ch mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help PLEASE do read the posting guide! http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html
______________________________________________ R-help at stat.math.ethz.ch mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help PLEASE do read the posting guide! http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html
-------------------------------------------------------------------- E-Mail: (Ted Harding) <Ted.Harding at nessie.mcc.ac.uk> Fax-to-email: +44 (0)870 094 0861 Date: 03-Sep-05 Time: 01:00:24 ------------------------------ XFMail ------------------------------
LOL Ted! That's a great quote for fortune()!
On Sat, 2005-09-03 at 01:06 +0100, Ted Harding wrote:
On 02-Sep-05 Sean O'Riordain wrote:
I can't lay my hands n it at the moment - its around here somewhere, but in "Numerical Methods That Work" by Forman Acton, the author points out that "the result of computation should be insight, not numbers".... ps. an excellent book if you haven't seen it. https://enterprise.maa.org/ecomtpro/Timssnet/products/TNT_products.cfm cheers, Sean
No doubt you're correct -- but I associate it with Richard Hamming (title page of "Numerical Methods for Scientists and Engineers" as I recall -- yes, for me too "it's around here somewhere" -- another really excellent book) where he words it: "The purpose of computing is insight, not numbers." to which he adds: "The purpose of computing numbers is not yet in sight." By the way, the Washington Post/Minneapolis Star Tribune article is somewhat reminiscent of a short (15 min) broadcast on BBC Radio 4 back on October 18 2004 15:45-16:00 called "Microsoft Powerpoint and the Decline of Civilisation" which explores similar themes and also frequently quotes Tufte. Unfortunately it lapsed for ever from "Listen Again" after the statutory week, so I can't point you to a replay. (However, I have carefully preserved the cassette recording I made). We are not, of course, going Off Topic here. If, in R, you can not indefinitely extend a tangent, then it's time to extend R. (Oh dear, I feel a fortune coming on ... ) Best wishes to all, Ted.
On 02/09/05, Achim Zeileis <Achim.Zeileis at wu-wien.ac.at> wrote:
On Fri, 2 Sep 2005 12:27:45 -0500 davidr at rhotrading.com wrote:
-----Original Message----- From: ... Robert Baer Sent: Friday, September 02, 2005 11:30 AM
....
.... It is wrong to blame ANY tool for our own shortcomings!
Surely a fortune!
thx, added to the devel-version of fortunes. But allow me one remark: Although the above is certainly true, there are computational tools that help us better to realize or avoid our own shortcomings whereas others will make it harder to arrive at the right conclusions. I agree that PowerPoint cannot be blamed for the crash of the space shuttle, but I also see the point that the way presentations are generated in PowerPoint (or graphics in Excel) can easily tempt people into producing presentations/graphics that conceal what is important. This is certainly not an excuse, but I think some criticism (even if phrased a bit provocatively) should be allowed. just my EUR 0.02. Z
David L. Reiner
______________________________________________ R-help at stat.math.ethz.ch mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help PLEASE do read the posting guide! http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html
______________________________________________ R-help at stat.math.ethz.ch mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help PLEASE do read the posting guide! http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html
______________________________________________ R-help at stat.math.ethz.ch mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help PLEASE do read the posting guide! http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html
-------------------------------------------------------------------- E-Mail: (Ted Harding) <Ted.Harding at nessie.mcc.ac.uk> Fax-to-email: +44 (0)870 094 0861 Date: 03-Sep-05 Time: 01:00:24 ------------------------------ XFMail ------------------------------
______________________________________________ R-help at stat.math.ethz.ch mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help PLEASE do read the posting guide! http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html
(Ted Harding) wrote:
By the way, the Washington Post/Minneapolis Star Tribune article is somewhat reminiscent of a short (15 min) broadcast on BBC Radio 4 back on October 18 2004 15:45-16:00 called "Microsoft Powerpoint and the Decline of Civilisation" which explores similar themes and also frequently quotes Tufte. Unfortunately it lapsed for ever from "Listen Again" after the statutory week, so I can't point you to a replay. (However, I have carefully preserved the cassette recording I made).
Try http://sooper.org/misc/powerpoint.mp3 (copyright law notwithstanding...) Tim C