All, I am interested in devloping a commercial java-based (why the language is important is discussed later) GUI for R. The app would allow the GUI to edit R commands and the results displayed in varios means. I have investigated various java based libraries to invoke R and they follow the apache license model (friendlier to commercial software developers). I understand the that R is released under the GPL license, which I have a reasonable understanding of. SO my question is simple, Can I develop a a commerical GUI for R (which would require R to be isntalled separately on the machine) without having to also release my source code ? I am hoping that some of core R development team see this and can provide useful feedback. Regards, Serge
[R-gui] GPL licensing issues with a commercial R GUI
13 messages · Serge Merzliakov, Gavin Simpson, Michael Lawrence +4 more
1 day later
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I am not a lawyer, but at important distinction here is what one means by "linked". You're not linking against R if you just run some R code through it and capture the output for example. This is how Brodgar, for example, does what Serge wants to achieve --- see their statement on R, Brodgar and the GPL: www.brodgar.com http://www.brodgar.com/brodgar.htm#2.%20Brodgar%20and%20R Whilst, from a personal point of view agree with Michael's statement about producing an open source app and then sell support, we all don;t have to follow that moral. G
On Tue, 2008-05-13 at 02:05 -0700, Michael Lawrence wrote:
Well, there's a big question as to whether non-GPL can link to GPL code. It's never been really tested in court. If I were you, I'd just make it open-source and sell your support for it. On Sun, May 11, 2008 at 5:19 AM, Serge Merzliakov <smerzlia at optusnet.com.au> wrote:
All, I am interested in devloping a commercial java-based (why the language is important is discussed later) GUI for R. The app would allow the GUI to edit R commands and the results displayed in varios means. I have investigated various java based libraries to invoke R and they follow the apache license model (friendlier to commercial software developers). I understand the that R is released under the GPL license, which I have a reasonable understanding of. SO my question is simple, Can I develop a a commerical GUI for R (which would require R to be isntalled separately on the machine) without having to also release my source code ? I am hoping that some of core R development team see this and can provide useful feedback. Regards, Serge
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%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~% Dr. Gavin Simpson [t] +44 (0)20 7679 0522 ECRC, UCL Geography, [f] +44 (0)20 7679 0565 Pearson Building, [e] gavin.simpsonATNOSPAMucl.ac.uk Gower Street, London [w] http://www.ucl.ac.uk/~ucfagls/ UK. WC1E 6BT. [w] http://www.freshwaters.org.uk %~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%
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This is exactly what I would like to do. There would be some text editor type functionality which would then be run through R and the outpur displayed.
Gavin Simpson wrote:
I am not a lawyer, but at important distinction here is what one means by "linked". You're not linking against R if you just run some R code through it and capture the output for example. This is how Brodgar, for example, does what Serge wants to achieve --- see their statement on R, Brodgar and the GPL: www.brodgar.com http://www.brodgar.com/brodgar.htm#2.%20Brodgar%20and%20R Whilst, from a personal point of view agree with Michael's statement about producing an open source app and then sell support, we all don;t have to follow that moral. G On Tue, 2008-05-13 at 02:05 -0700, Michael Lawrence wrote:
Well, there's a big question as to whether non-GPL can link to GPL code.
It's never been really tested in court. If I were you, I'd just make it
open-source and sell your support for it.
On Sun, May 11, 2008 at 5:19 AM, Serge Merzliakov <smerzlia at optusnet.com.au>
wrote:
All, I am interested in devloping a commercial java-based (why the language is important is discussed later) GUI for R. The app would allow the GUI to edit R commands and the results displayed in varios means. I have investigated various java based libraries to invoke R and they follow the apache license model (friendlier to commercial software developers). I understand the that R is released under the GPL license, which I have a reasonable understanding of. SO my question is simple, Can I develop a a commerical GUI for R (which would require R to be isntalled separately on the machine) without having to also release my source code ? I am hoping that some of core R development team see this and can provide useful feedback. Regards, Serge
_______________________________________________ R-SIG-GUI mailing list R-SIG-GUI at stat.math.ethz.ch https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-sig-gui
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Michael, All, You may want to check the following link: www.biocep.net , it's about a general unified open source (Apache 2.0) solution for integrating R. I have been working on it for about a year and a half, it's still work in progress but most of the announced features are in full working order. I should release it before the tutorial I will be giving during useR! 2008 (http://www.statistik.uni-dortmund.de/useR-2008/tutorials/chine.html) Biocep use cases include : run R as a Server (RMI,HTTP,SOAP) , generate Web Services for R functions (stateful/stateless), deploy an R virtualization infrastructure, use a highly-productive workbench to control R Servers ( multi-platform GUI for R, most advanced one currently available with spreadsheet views, embedded jEdit, interactive Zoom/Scroll on R graphics, extensibility with plugins,..) and more.. Slides can be found here : http://biocep-distrib.r-forge.r-project.org/distR.pdf Best wishes, Karim
Michael Lawrence wrote:
Rserve would be a convenient means to get around dynamic linking. The "derivative work" clause of the GPL has never been clear to me. Where to draw the line? Why should piping data between processes be treated any different from dynamic linking? They're just different interfaces to achieve approximately the same effect. On Tue, May 13, 2008 at 4:15 AM, Gavin Simpson <gavin.simpson at ucl.ac.uk> wrote:
I am not a lawyer, but at important distinction here is what one means by "linked". You're not linking against R if you just run some R code through it and capture the output for example. This is how Brodgar, for example, does what Serge wants to achieve --- see their statement on R, Brodgar and the GPL: www.brodgar.com http://www.brodgar.com/brodgar.htm#2.%20Brodgar%20and%20R Whilst, from a personal point of view agree with Michael's statement about producing an open source app and then sell support, we all don;t have to follow that moral. G On Tue, 2008-05-13 at 02:05 -0700, Michael Lawrence wrote:
Well, there's a big question as to whether non-GPL can link to GPL code.
It's never been really tested in court. If I were you, I'd just make it
open-source and sell your support for it.
On Sun, May 11, 2008 at 5:19 AM, Serge Merzliakov <
smerzlia at optusnet.com.au>
wrote:
All,
I am interested in devloping a commercial java-based (why the
language is
important is discussed later) GUI for R. The app would allow the GUI
to edit
R commands and the results displayed in varios means. I have
investigated
various java based libraries to invoke R and they follow the apache
license
model (friendlier to commercial software developers). I understand the
that
R is released under the GPL license, which I have a reasonable
understanding
of. SO my question is simple, Can I develop a a commerical GUI for R
(which
would require R to be isntalled separately on the machine) without
having to
also release my source code ?
I am hoping that some of core R development team see this and can
provide
useful feedback. Regards, Serge
_______________________________________________ R-SIG-GUI mailing list R-SIG-GUI at stat.math.ethz.ch https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-sig-gui
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-- %~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~% Dr. Gavin Simpson [t] +44 (0)20 7679 0522 ECRC, UCL Geography, [f] +44 (0)20 7679 0565 Pearson Building, [e] gavin.simpsonATNOSPAMucl.ac.uk Gower Street, London [w] http://www.ucl.ac.uk/~ucfagls/<http://www.ucl.ac.uk/%7Eucfagls/> UK. WC1E 6BT. [w] http://www.freshwaters.org.uk %~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%
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On Tuesday 13 May 2008, Michael Lawrence wrote:
Rserve would be a convenient means to get around dynamic linking. The "derivative work" clause of the GPL has never been clear to me. Where to draw the line? Why should piping data between processes be treated any different from dynamic linking? They're just different interfaces to achieve approximately the same effect.
Since version 15, I believe, SPSS incorporated R syntax (more exactly it allows using R code in the syntax window). When using R code, SPSS is nothing but a GUI, so there is at least one good example of having a comercial product using R... Adrian
Adrian Dusa
Romanian Social Data Archive
1, Schitu Magureanu Bd.
050025 Bucharest sector 5
Romania
Tel.:+40 21 3126618 \
+40 21 3120210 / int.101
Fax: +40 21 3158391
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Dear Karim, I am currently using jEdit for writing R code, and I find your R integration highly useful. What should one do in order to link jEdit and R, is there a jEdit plugin or something? Thank you, Adrian
On Tuesday 13 May 2008, Karim Chine wrote:
Michael, All, You may want to check the following link: www.biocep.net , it's about a general unified open source (Apache 2.0) solution for integrating R. I have been working on it for about a year and a half, it's still work in progress but most of the announced features are in full working order. I should release it before the tutorial I will be giving during useR! 2008 (http://www.statistik.uni-dortmund.de/useR-2008/tutorials/chine.html) Biocep use cases include : run R as a Server (RMI,HTTP,SOAP) , generate Web Services for R functions (stateful/stateless), deploy an R virtualization infrastructure, use a highly-productive workbench to control R Servers ( multi-platform GUI for R, most advanced one currently available with spreadsheet views, embedded jEdit, interactive Zoom/Scroll on R graphics, extensibility with plugins,..) and more.. Slides can be found here : http://biocep-distrib.r-forge.r-project.org/distR.pdf Best wishes, Karim
Adrian Dusa
Romanian Social Data Archive
1, Schitu Magureanu Bd.
050025 Bucharest sector 5
Romania
Tel.:+40 21 3126618 \
+40 21 3120210 / int.101
Fax: +40 21 3158391
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On 5/13/2008 7:46 AM, Serge Merzliakov wrote:
This is exactly what I would like to do. There would be some text editor type functionality which would then be run through R and the outpur displayed.
In your original post, you asked for feedback from the core development team. But what you really need is feedback from a lawyer who understands copyright and the GPL. I would assume that some copyright holder will aggressively enforce the GPL. It is not enough for one or two copyright holders to tell you to go ahead, you have to have agreement from all of them if you are violating the GPL. The copyright in R is held quite widely, so I would guess it is not practical to get that sort of permission. Similarly, I don't think it would be practical to get permission from a subset of the copyright holders and rewrite the parts you don't have permission to use. On the other hand, if what you are doing falls within the GPL, then you already have permission to do it. The core development team does not know about subtleties of copyright law so it is not in a position to tell you whether what you want to do is GPL compatible or not. If you're not sure that what you are doing is legal, ask a lawyer, don't ask us. Duncan Murdoch
Gavin Simpson wrote:
I am not a lawyer, but at important distinction here is what one means by "linked". You're not linking against R if you just run some R code through it and capture the output for example. This is how Brodgar, for example, does what Serge wants to achieve --- see their statement on R, Brodgar and the GPL: www.brodgar.com http://www.brodgar.com/brodgar.htm#2.%20Brodgar%20and%20R Whilst, from a personal point of view agree with Michael's statement about producing an open source app and then sell support, we all don;t have to follow that moral. G On Tue, 2008-05-13 at 02:05 -0700, Michael Lawrence wrote:
Well, there's a big question as to whether non-GPL can link to GPL code.
It's never been really tested in court. If I were you, I'd just make it
open-source and sell your support for it.
On Sun, May 11, 2008 at 5:19 AM, Serge Merzliakov <smerzlia at optusnet.com.au>
wrote:
All, I am interested in devloping a commercial java-based (why the language is important is discussed later) GUI for R. The app would allow the GUI to edit R commands and the results displayed in varios means. I have investigated various java based libraries to invoke R and they follow the apache license model (friendlier to commercial software developers). I understand the that R is released under the GPL license, which I have a reasonable understanding of. SO my question is simple, Can I develop a a commerical GUI for R (which would require R to be isntalled separately on the machine) without having to also release my source code ? I am hoping that some of core R development team see this and can provide useful feedback. Regards, Serge
_______________________________________________ R-SIG-GUI mailing list R-SIG-GUI at stat.math.ethz.ch https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-sig-gui
[[alternative HTML version deleted]]
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Dear Adrian Apart from the Virtual R Workbench I've written, I am not aware of a software/plugin that enables the use of R from jEdit (you have only extensions for enabling R syntax highlighting). The workbench embeds a patched version of jEdit as a view. I have added to the jEdit ToolBar buttons for sourcing the script beeing edited to your R Server or to the jython / Groovy interpreters available on client and on server sides. The spreadsheet view has a similar feature + data import/export to R + use of R functions in computed cells . the workbench is available: -as an applet : http://biocep-distrib.r-forge.r-project.org/rworkbench_applet.html -as a Java Web Start application : http://biocep-distrib.r-forge.r-project.org/rworkbench.jnlp -as a desktop application : java -jar biocep.jar (http://biocep-distrib.r-forge.r-project.org/appletlibs/biocep.jar) you've got a "Getting Started" for runnig and connecting to R Servers here : http://biocep-distrib.r-forge.r-project.org/doc.html#Deliverables you may also want to have a look the flollowing eclipse plugin : http://www.walware.de/goto/statet it will probably in the near future embed biocep-core to run and control R Servers from eclipse. Best wishes, Karim
Adrian Dusa wrote:
Dear Karim, I am currently using jEdit for writing R code, and I find your R integration highly useful. What should one do in order to link jEdit and R, is there a jEdit plugin or something? Thank you, Adrian On Tuesday 13 May 2008, Karim Chine wrote:
Michael, All, You may want to check the following link: www.biocep.net , it's about a general unified open source (Apache 2.0) solution for integrating R. I have been working on it for about a year and a half, it's still work in progress but most of the announced features are in full working order. I should release it before the tutorial I will be giving during useR! 2008 (http://www.statistik.uni-dortmund.de/useR-2008/tutorials/chine.html) Biocep use cases include : run R as a Server (RMI,HTTP,SOAP) , generate Web Services for R functions (stateful/stateless), deploy an R virtualization infrastructure, use a highly-productive workbench to control R Servers ( multi-platform GUI for R, most advanced one currently available with spreadsheet views, embedded jEdit, interactive Zoom/Scroll on R graphics, extensibility with plugins,..) and more.. Slides can be found here : http://biocep-distrib.r-forge.r-project.org/distR.pdf Best wishes, Karim
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Oh, I knew Romain was working on this plug-in, but I didn't know it was operational. I'll try it and see how it works, thanks for the news. Adrian
On Wednesday 14 May 2008, Michael Lawrence wrote:
If you search the R help list, you'll find a thread about jEdit and R. Romain Francois at Mango Solutions had created a very nice jEdit plugin for R. It integrated R with the Console and SideKick plugins and a lot more. He posted something here: http://addictedtor.free.fr/jedit/jeditr.tar.gz I hope Romain does not mind me posting that link. It's probably a very old version. Hope that's of interest Michael On Tue, May 13, 2008 at 8:32 AM, Karim Chine <karim.chine at gmail.com> wrote:
Dear Adrian Apart from the Virtual R Workbench I've written, I am not aware of a software/plugin that enables the use of R from jEdit (you have only extensions for enabling R syntax highlighting). The workbench embeds a patched version of jEdit as a view. I have added to the jEdit ToolBar buttons for sourcing the script beeing edited to your R Server or to the jython / Groovy interpreters available on client and on server sides. The spreadsheet view has a similar feature + data import/export to R + use of R functions in computed cells . the workbench is available: -as an applet : http://biocep-distrib.r-forge.r-project.org/rworkbench_applet.html -as a Java Web Start application : http://biocep-distrib.r-forge.r-project.org/rworkbench.jnlp -as a desktop application : java -jar biocep.jar ( http://biocep-distrib.r-forge.r-project.org/appletlibs/biocep.jar) you've got a "Getting Started" for runnig and connecting to R Servers here : http://biocep-distrib.r-forge.r-project.org/doc.html#Deliverables you may also want to have a look the flollowing eclipse plugin : http://www.walware.de/goto/statet it will probably in the near future embed biocep-core to run and control R Servers from eclipse. Best wishes, Karim Adrian Dusa wrote:
Dear Karim, I am currently using jEdit for writing R code, and I find your R integration highly useful. What should one do in order to link jEdit and R, is there a jEdit plugin or something? Thank you, Adrian On Tuesday 13 May 2008, Karim Chine wrote:
Michael, All, You may want to check the following link: www.biocep.net , it's about a general unified open source (Apache 2.0) solution for integrating R. I have been working on it for about a year and a half, it's still work in progress but most of the announced features are in full working order. I should release it before the tutorial I will be giving during useR! 2008 ( http://www.statistik.uni-dortmund.de/useR-2008/tutorials/chine.html) Biocep use cases include : run R as a Server (RMI,HTTP,SOAP) , generate Web Services for R functions (stateful/stateless), deploy an R virtualization infrastructure, use a highly-productive workbench to control R Servers ( multi-platform GUI for R, most advanced one currently available with spreadsheet views, embedded jEdit, interactive Zoom/Scroll on R graphics, extensibility with plugins,..) and more.. Slides can be found here : http://biocep-distrib.r-forge.r-project.org/distR.pdf Best wishes, Karim
Adrian Dusa
Romanian Social Data Archive
1, Schitu Magureanu Bd.
050025 Bucharest sector 5
Romania
Tel.:+40 21 3126618 \
+40 21 3120210 / int.101
Fax: +40 21 3158391
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Hi, I do not mind people pointing work I have done ;-) The plugin is kind of not really operational, but I am using it. The version there is old, but somehow not a great deal of work has been done on it since. I am happy to discuss it more though. Cheers, Romain
Adrian Dusa wrote:
Oh, I knew Romain was working on this plug-in, but I didn't know it was operational. I'll try it and see how it works, thanks for the news. Adrian On Wednesday 14 May 2008, Michael Lawrence wrote:
If you search the R help list, you'll find a thread about jEdit and R. Romain Francois at Mango Solutions had created a very nice jEdit plugin for R. It integrated R with the Console and SideKick plugins and a lot more. He posted something here: http://addictedtor.free.fr/jedit/jeditr.tar.gz I hope Romain does not mind me posting that link. It's probably a very old version. Hope that's of interest Michael On Tue, May 13, 2008 at 8:32 AM, Karim Chine <karim.chine at gmail.com> wrote:
Dear Adrian Apart from the Virtual R Workbench I've written, I am not aware of a software/plugin that enables the use of R from jEdit (you have only extensions for enabling R syntax highlighting). The workbench embeds a patched version of jEdit as a view. I have added to the jEdit ToolBar buttons for sourcing the script beeing edited to your R Server or to the jython / Groovy interpreters available on client and on server sides. The spreadsheet view has a similar feature + data import/export to R + use of R functions in computed cells . the workbench is available: -as an applet : http://biocep-distrib.r-forge.r-project.org/rworkbench_applet.html -as a Java Web Start application : http://biocep-distrib.r-forge.r-project.org/rworkbench.jnlp -as a desktop application : java -jar biocep.jar ( http://biocep-distrib.r-forge.r-project.org/appletlibs/biocep.jar) you've got a "Getting Started" for runnig and connecting to R Servers here : http://biocep-distrib.r-forge.r-project.org/doc.html#Deliverables you may also want to have a look the flollowing eclipse plugin : http://www.walware.de/goto/statet it will probably in the near future embed biocep-core to run and control R Servers from eclipse. Best wishes, Karim Adrian Dusa wrote:
Dear Karim,
I am currently using jEdit for writing R code, and I find your R
integration highly useful. What should one do in order to link jEdit
and R, is there a jEdit plugin or something?
Thank you,
Adrian
On Tuesday 13 May 2008, Karim Chine wrote:
Michael, All, You may want to check the following link: www.biocep.net , it's about a general unified open source (Apache 2.0) solution for integrating R. I have been working on it for about a year and a half, it's still work in progress but most of the announced features are in full working order. I should release it before the tutorial I will be giving during useR! 2008 ( http://www.statistik.uni-dortmund.de/useR-2008/tutorials/chine.html) Biocep use cases include : run R as a Server (RMI,HTTP,SOAP) , generate Web Services for R functions (stateful/stateless), deploy an R virtualization infrastructure, use a highly-productive workbench to control R Servers ( multi-platform GUI for R, most advanced one currently available with spreadsheet views, embedded jEdit, interactive Zoom/Scroll on R graphics, extensibility with plugins,..) and more.. Slides can be found here : http://biocep-distrib.r-forge.r-project.org/distR.pdf Best wishes, Karim
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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