Data editor

Thank you for the responses to my email. I'd like to further the
 discussion a little because I think it may be productive.

 I'll take major points from the responses and deal with them one by one
 although not necessarily in order.

 With regard to my colleague's willingness to learn a command line
 program. She is an extremely intelligent person and has learned Latex to
 typeset her documents - no question she is able to learn. But she
 requires some evidence that the program is worth learning. To her mind
 and to mine, simple things should be simple to do and complex things
 made easier by any software. My point here is that entering in data via
 the data editor failed. Whether or not that is the best way or the right
 way is irrelevant. R offers an option to enter small data sets via an
 editor - the edit function. In the X11 interface and the Windows
 interface to the edit function, the functionality is present. In the mac
 editor it is not. I agree that the GUI interface to the command line is
 nice and functional and the programmers are to be applauded. The fact
 remains that the data editor in the Mac interface is inadequate.  When
 someone tries a program for the first time and a simple function fails
 then there is no incentive to go further.


 As regards the best way to enter data.  I think statisticians are used
 to investigators coming to them with very precious post processed data.
 Consequently data entry is handled using programs that emphasize data
 integrity, security and organisation. Hence the use of Excel (sic!!!) to
 handle data for export to R.

 In reality in lab work, data abounds. The scientist  performs ad hoc
 experiments daily and tries to see what is going on. Sometimes, as in
 this case, he/she wants to find out if a rough <preliminary> experiment
 is showing a difference. For the scientist, the ability to enter data
 quickly and see if the difference they think they are seeing is real
 <is> important. When the experiments have settled into a routine and
 data collection becomes part of a protocol, the data should and does go
 into a data entry program ( a database with data entry front end or a
 spreadsheet). That is the data the statistician sees and has been
 collected with great care and expense, but it is not the only kind of
 data the scientist deals with

 Yes the t-test could be done on a calculator, but few scientists in the
 biomedical sciences actually use a calculator for a t-test. They all use
 a computer based stats program. To my mind, if they do it in R, two
 things are accomplished; a broader adoption of R and the preliminary
 data are in R to be added to and if difficulties arise to be handed to
 an analyst who also uses R. (Please don't go off topic and tell me they
 should have seen a statistician before starting; a.) I know the reasons
 and b.) it isn't always necessary)

 Mathematical statisticians regard data as holy. Scientists who collect
 the data know it to be dirty, unkempt and often scribbled on pieces of
 paper or on the margins of notebooks -especially when the experiments
 are just getting started. Not all data are important. Many experiments
 simply confirm that there is no difference due to a treatment. The
 ability to quickly enter small data sets and check to see if there
 really is a difference is important to investigators. Fisher knew that,
 so did Student/Gosset hence the development of small sample statistics.
 I'm suggesting that if 'R' wants to address the needs of scientists, a
 method for entry of small data sets is important. The command line is
 fine. I use it and I am happy with it. But R <offers> a data editor.
 Those who want to use it should be able to. This does not mean a full
 blown spreadsheet interface. I agree that would be stupid. All I am
 suggesting is that the Mac data editor be functional. The Unix and
 Windows ones already are.




 --
 John Walker
 Assistant Professor of Cardiology
 Department of Medicine
 University of Colorado Health Sciences Center
 4200 E. Ninth Ave B130
 BRB Rm 351
 Denver CO 80262

 ph 303 315 0103