Dear R-meta Community, I'm meta-analyzing a group of pre-post studies. My first RQ is: what is the "overall effect" of policy X on a dependent variable. I know that I can fit an intercept-only model to answer this RQ. But an intercept-only model estimates the average effect size across BOTH pre-tests (before policy X implementation) and post-tests (after policy X implementation), while pre-test effect sizes don't contain any policy X effect. Given that, is it appropriate to use an intercept-only model to answer this RQ, or I actually need to use a time indicator as a moderator to separate the pre- from post-test effect sizes to answer this RQ (in which case the original RQ must change too)? Thank you for helping me better conceptualize this basic question, Luke
[R-meta] Estimating "overall effect" in meta-regression
6 messages · Luke Martinez, Wolfgang Viechtbauer
1 day later
Dear Luke, I don't understand the question, in part because it is not clear to me what kind of design the studies have and what kind of effect size measure you are using. Could you clarify this? Best, Wolfgang
-----Original Message----- From: Luke Martinez [mailto:martinezlukerm at gmail.com] Sent: Sunday, 09 January, 2022 7:53 To: R meta Cc: Viechtbauer, Wolfgang (SP) Subject: Estimating "overall effect" in meta-regression Dear R-meta Community, I'm meta-analyzing a group of pre-post studies. My first RQ is: what is the "overall effect" of policy X on a dependent variable. I know that I can fit an intercept-only model to answer this RQ. But an intercept-only model estimates the average effect size across BOTH pre-tests (before policy X implementation) and post-tests (after policy X implementation), while pre-test effect sizes don't contain any policy X effect. Given that, is it appropriate to use an intercept-only model to answer this RQ, or I actually need to use a time indicator as a moderator to separate the pre- from post-test effect sizes to answer this RQ (in which case the original RQ must change too)? Thank you for helping me better conceptualize this basic question, Luke
Dear Wolfgang, The studies follow a pre-post-control design. The effect size measure used is standardized mean difference (SMD). I hope this clarifies my question. Luke sudy time yi 1 0 1 1 2 0 2 1 On Mon, Jan 10, 2022, 5:43 AM Viechtbauer, Wolfgang (SP) <
wolfgang.viechtbauer at maastrichtuniversity.nl> wrote:
Dear Luke, I don't understand the question, in part because it is not clear to me what kind of design the studies have and what kind of effect size measure you are using. Could you clarify this? Best, Wolfgang
-----Original Message----- From: Luke Martinez [mailto:martinezlukerm at gmail.com] Sent: Sunday, 09 January, 2022 7:53 To: R meta Cc: Viechtbauer, Wolfgang (SP) Subject: Estimating "overall effect" in meta-regression Dear R-meta Community, I'm meta-analyzing a group of pre-post studies. My first RQ is: what is the "overall effect" of policy X on a dependent variable. I know that I can fit an intercept-only model to answer this RQ. But an intercept-only model estimates the average effect size across BOTH pre-tests (before policy X implementation) and post-tests (after policy X implementation), while pre-test effect sizes don't contain any policy X effect. Given that, is it appropriate to use an intercept-only model to answer this RQ, or I actually need to use a time indicator as a moderator to separate the pre- from post-test effect sizes to answer this RQ (in which case the original RQ must change too)? Thank you for helping me better conceptualize this basic question, Luke
For such a pre-post-control-group design design, one could compute two standardized mean differences (one for time 1 and one for time 2), or two standardized mean changes (one for the treatment and one for the control group), or one could compute the difference between two such estimates. Based on the schema below, it looks like you are computing two standardized mean differences (one for time 1 and one for time 2). Note that the two standardized mean differences are not independent, since they are computed based on the same subjects. This aside, then one definitely should include time as a moderator, as it would make little sense to synthesize estimates from before and after the treatment into a single pooled effect. Best, Wolfgang
-----Original Message----- From: Luke Martinez [mailto:martinezlukerm at gmail.com] Sent: Monday, 10 January, 2022 13:38 To: Viechtbauer, Wolfgang (SP) Cc: R meta Subject: Re: Estimating "overall effect" in meta-regression Dear Wolfgang, The studies follow a pre-post-control design. The effect size measure used is standardized mean difference (SMD). I hope this clarifies my question. Luke sudy time? yi 1? ? ? ? ?0 1? ? ? ? ?1 2? ? ? ? ?0 2? ? ? ? ?1 On Mon, Jan 10, 2022, 5:43 AM Viechtbauer, Wolfgang (SP) <wolfgang.viechtbauer at maastrichtuniversity.nl> wrote: Dear Luke, I don't understand the question, in part because it is not clear to me what kind of design the studies have and what kind of effect size measure you are using. Could you clarify this? Best, Wolfgang
-----Original Message----- From: Luke Martinez [mailto:martinezlukerm at gmail.com] Sent: Sunday, 09 January, 2022 7:53 To: R meta Cc: Viechtbauer, Wolfgang (SP) Subject: Estimating "overall effect" in meta-regression Dear R-meta Community, I'm meta-analyzing a group of pre-post studies. My first RQ is: what is the "overall effect" of policy X on a dependent variable. I know that I can fit an intercept-only model to answer this RQ. But an intercept-only model estimates the average effect size across BOTH pre-tests (before policy X implementation) and post-tests (after policy X implementation), while pre-test effect sizes don't contain any policy X effect. Given that, is it appropriate to use an intercept-only model to answer this RQ, or I actually need to use a time indicator as a moderator to separate the pre- from post-test effect sizes to answer this RQ (in which case the original RQ must change too)? Thank you for helping me better conceptualize this basic question, Luke
Thank you so much, Wolfgang. I gather from your response that any additional moderators in such a meta-analysis must likewise interact with time so we can separate the effect of such a moderator at each different time point. Thank you very much, Luke On Mon, Jan 10, 2022 at 9:15 AM Viechtbauer, Wolfgang (SP)
<wolfgang.viechtbauer at maastrichtuniversity.nl> wrote:
For such a pre-post-control-group design design, one could compute two standardized mean differences (one for time 1 and one for time 2), or two standardized mean changes (one for the treatment and one for the control group), or one could compute the difference between two such estimates. Based on the schema below, it looks like you are computing two standardized mean differences (one for time 1 and one for time 2). Note that the two standardized mean differences are not independent, since they are computed based on the same subjects. This aside, then one definitely should include time as a moderator, as it would make little sense to synthesize estimates from before and after the treatment into a single pooled effect. Best, Wolfgang
-----Original Message----- From: Luke Martinez [mailto:martinezlukerm at gmail.com] Sent: Monday, 10 January, 2022 13:38 To: Viechtbauer, Wolfgang (SP) Cc: R meta Subject: Re: Estimating "overall effect" in meta-regression Dear Wolfgang, The studies follow a pre-post-control design. The effect size measure used is standardized mean difference (SMD). I hope this clarifies my question. Luke sudy time yi 1 0 1 1 2 0 2 1 On Mon, Jan 10, 2022, 5:43 AM Viechtbauer, Wolfgang (SP) <wolfgang.viechtbauer at maastrichtuniversity.nl> wrote: Dear Luke, I don't understand the question, in part because it is not clear to me what kind of design the studies have and what kind of effect size measure you are using. Could you clarify this? Best, Wolfgang
-----Original Message----- From: Luke Martinez [mailto:martinezlukerm at gmail.com] Sent: Sunday, 09 January, 2022 7:53 To: R meta Cc: Viechtbauer, Wolfgang (SP) Subject: Estimating "overall effect" in meta-regression Dear R-meta Community, I'm meta-analyzing a group of pre-post studies. My first RQ is: what is the "overall effect" of policy X on a dependent variable. I know that I can fit an intercept-only model to answer this RQ. But an intercept-only model estimates the average effect size across BOTH pre-tests (before policy X implementation) and post-tests (after policy X implementation), while pre-test effect sizes don't contain any policy X effect. Given that, is it appropriate to use an intercept-only model to answer this RQ, or I actually need to use a time indicator as a moderator to separate the pre- from post-test effect sizes to answer this RQ (in which case the original RQ must change too)? Thank you for helping me better conceptualize this basic question, Luke
Yes, that would make sense. Best, Wolfgang
-----Original Message----- From: Luke Martinez [mailto:martinezlukerm at gmail.com] Sent: Monday, 10 January, 2022 17:47 To: Viechtbauer, Wolfgang (SP) Cc: R meta Subject: Re: Estimating "overall effect" in meta-regression Thank you so much, Wolfgang. I gather from your response that any additional moderators in such a meta-analysis must likewise interact with time so we can separate the effect of such a moderator at each different time point. Thank you very much, Luke On Mon, Jan 10, 2022 at 9:15 AM Viechtbauer, Wolfgang (SP) <wolfgang.viechtbauer at maastrichtuniversity.nl> wrote:
For such a pre-post-control-group design design, one could compute two
standardized mean differences (one for time 1 and one for time 2), or two standardized mean changes (one for the treatment and one for the control group), or one could compute the difference between two such estimates.
Based on the schema below, it looks like you are computing two standardized
mean differences (one for time 1 and one for time 2). Note that the two standardized mean differences are not independent, since they are computed based on the same subjects. This aside, then one definitely should include time as a moderator, as it would make little sense to synthesize estimates from before and after the treatment into a single pooled effect.
Best, Wolfgang
-----Original Message----- From: Luke Martinez [mailto:martinezlukerm at gmail.com] Sent: Monday, 10 January, 2022 13:38 To: Viechtbauer, Wolfgang (SP) Cc: R meta Subject: Re: Estimating "overall effect" in meta-regression Dear Wolfgang, The studies follow a pre-post-control design. The effect size measure used is standardized mean difference (SMD). I hope this clarifies my question. Luke sudy time yi 1 0 1 1 2 0 2 1 On Mon, Jan 10, 2022, 5:43 AM Viechtbauer, Wolfgang (SP) <wolfgang.viechtbauer at maastrichtuniversity.nl> wrote: Dear Luke, I don't understand the question, in part because it is not clear to me what
kind
of design the studies have and what kind of effect size measure you are using. Could you clarify this? Best, Wolfgang
-----Original Message----- From: Luke Martinez [mailto:martinezlukerm at gmail.com] Sent: Sunday, 09 January, 2022 7:53 To: R meta Cc: Viechtbauer, Wolfgang (SP) Subject: Estimating "overall effect" in meta-regression Dear R-meta Community, I'm meta-analyzing a group of pre-post studies. My first RQ is: what is the "overall effect" of policy X on a dependent variable. I know that I can fit an intercept-only model to answer this RQ. But an intercept-only model estimates the average effect size across BOTH pre-tests (before policy X implementation) and post-tests (after policy X implementation), while pre-test effect sizes don't contain any policy X effect. Given that, is it appropriate to use an intercept-only model to answer this RQ, or I actually need to use a time indicator as a moderator to separate the pre- from post-test effect sizes to answer this RQ (in which case the original RQ must change too)? Thank you for helping me better conceptualize this basic question, Luke