Dear all, I am conducting a random-effects meta-analysis of 4 longitudinal studies measuring a blood inflammatory marker earlier on in life, and an unrelated outcome (measured in an interview) years later. The studies are not uniform in N (one is about 80k people, the 2 smallest are about 2k people) and in time to follow up (ranging from 8 to 21 years). I have odds ratios and 95% confidence intervals for the outcome based on cut-offs of the baseline marker (e.g. outcome for inflamed vs outcome for non-inflamed). I have 2 questions for you: 1- if I use weighting by N, as recommended by Cochrane, I am basically reporting the findings of the larger study, which gets 88% of the weight. The larger study is possibly qualitatively less good than the 2 smallest studies. What do you suggest to use for weighting? Is there any compound weighting methods that takes into account, say, study quality, N and inverse variance? 2- time to follow-up: even if I am not measuring a difference in outcome over time, but just the risk of an outcome after an exposure, do I need to adjust for time to follow-up? And how? Many thanks in advance for your time and thoughts on this. Best wishes, Emanuele
[R-meta] Need to specify meta analysis weights
5 messages · Emanuele F. Osimo, Gerta Ruecker, Wolfgang Viechtbauer
Dear Emanuele, To your first question: First, Cochrane doesn't recommend weighting by N. Cochrane (and others) recommend weighting by inverse variance, and in the case of a binary outcome (you mention odds ratios) it is even better to use a generalised linear mixed model (GLMM), e.g., logistic regression. Also random effect models are available. A random effect model is suitable to mitigate the effect of the largest study, or to upweight smaller studies, which seems to be desired in your case. To the second question: One possibility would be meta-regression with length of follow-up as a covariate. Is length of follow-up a study-level covariate, or an individual-level covariate? There is no problem in the first case, but it may be problematic in the second case, when each individual has a different length of follow-up. Best, Gerta Am 04.09.2020 um 12:22 schrieb Emanuele F. Osimo:
Dear all, I am conducting a random-effects meta-analysis of 4 longitudinal studies measuring a blood inflammatory marker earlier on in life, and an unrelated outcome (measured in an interview) years later. The studies are not uniform in N (one is about 80k people, the 2 smallest are about 2k people) and in time to follow up (ranging from 8 to 21 years). I have odds ratios and 95% confidence intervals for the outcome based on cut-offs of the baseline marker (e.g. outcome for inflamed vs outcome for non-inflamed). I have 2 questions for you: 1- if I use weighting by N, as recommended by Cochrane, I am basically reporting the findings of the larger study, which gets 88% of the weight. The larger study is possibly qualitatively less good than the 2 smallest studies. What do you suggest to use for weighting? Is there any compound weighting methods that takes into account, say, study quality, N and inverse variance? 2- time to follow-up: even if I am not measuring a difference in outcome over time, but just the risk of an outcome after an exposure, do I need to adjust for time to follow-up? And how? Many thanks in advance for your time and thoughts on this. Best wishes, Emanuele [[alternative HTML version deleted]]
_______________________________________________ R-sig-meta-analysis mailing list R-sig-meta-analysis at r-project.org https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-sig-meta-analysis
Dr. rer. nat. Gerta R?cker, Dipl.-Math. Institute of Medical Biometry and Statistics, Faculty of Medicine and Medical Center - University of Freiburg Stefan-Meier-Str. 26, D-79104 Freiburg, Germany Phone: +49/761/203-6673 Fax: +49/761/203-6680 Mail: ruecker at imbi.uni-freiburg.de Homepage: https://www.uniklinik-freiburg.de/imbi-en/employees.html?imbiuser=ruecker
3 days later
Dear Gerta, many thanks for your reply. A couple of follow-up questions: 1) does using inverse variance to weight studies hold when only few studies are included, and one is much bigger than the others? 2) why is rma.glmm better than rma.uni which I have used in R to apply random effect models for ORs? Is there a way to apply rma.glmm using log(OR) and the standard error of the OR (which is what I have available) instead of the contingency tables it requires? Many thanks again for your help. Best wishes, Emanuele On Fri, 4 Sep 2020 at 11:55, Gerta Ruecker <ruecker at imbi.uni-freiburg.de> wrote:
Dear Emanuele, To your first question: First, Cochrane doesn't recommend weighting by N. Cochrane (and others) recommend weighting by inverse variance, and in the case of a binary outcome (you mention odds ratios) it is even better to use a generalised linear mixed model (GLMM), e.g., logistic regression. Also random effect models are available. A random effect model is suitable to mitigate the effect of the largest study, or to upweight smaller studies, which seems to be desired in your case. To the second question: One possibility would be meta-regression with length of follow-up as a covariate. Is length of follow-up a study-level covariate, or an individual-level covariate? There is no problem in the first case, but it may be problematic in the second case, when each individual has a different length of follow-up. Best, Gerta Am 04.09.2020 um 12:22 schrieb Emanuele F. Osimo:
Dear all, I am conducting a random-effects meta-analysis of 4 longitudinal studies measuring a blood inflammatory marker earlier on in life, and an
unrelated
outcome (measured in an interview) years later. The studies are not uniform in N (one is about 80k people, the 2 smallest are about 2k people) and in time to follow up (ranging from 8 to 21
years).
I have odds ratios and 95% confidence intervals for the outcome based on cut-offs of the baseline marker (e.g. outcome for inflamed vs outcome for non-inflamed). I have 2 questions for you: 1- if I use weighting by N, as recommended by Cochrane, I am basically reporting the findings of the larger study, which gets 88% of the weight. The larger study is possibly qualitatively less good than the 2 smallest studies. What do you suggest to use for weighting? Is there any compound weighting methods that takes into account, say, study quality, N and inverse variance? 2- time to follow-up: even if I am not measuring a difference in outcome over time, but just the risk of an outcome after an exposure, do I need
to
adjust for time to follow-up? And how?
Many thanks in advance for your time and thoughts on this.
Best wishes,
Emanuele
[[alternative HTML version deleted]]
_______________________________________________ R-sig-meta-analysis mailing list R-sig-meta-analysis at r-project.org https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-sig-meta-analysis
-- Dr. rer. nat. Gerta R?cker, Dipl.-Math. Institute of Medical Biometry and Statistics, Faculty of Medicine and Medical Center - University of Freiburg Stefan-Meier-Str. 26, D-79104 Freiburg, Germany Phone: +49/761/203-6673 Fax: +49/761/203-6680 Mail: ruecker at imbi.uni-freiburg.de Homepage: https://www.uniklinik-freiburg.de/imbi-en/employees.html?imbiuser=ruecker
Dear Emanuele, My answers see inline below. Am 07.09.2020 um 15:38 schrieb Emanuele F. Osimo:
Dear Gerta, many thanks for your reply. A couple of follow-up?questions: 1) does using inverse variance to weight studies hold when only few studies are included, and one is much bigger than the others?
Inverse variance weighting is relatively uncontroversial if data are continuous and the fixed (more precise: the common) effect model is used. (In parentheses: There have been a few controversies with respect to the random effects model, but the majority of statisticians would recommend it.) For binary data, the inverse variance method had also been recommended for a long time, but most of us become more and more aware that the two-stage methods are not optimal, particularly in case of rare events. If one study is much bigger than the others, the philosophy of the common effect model says that the large study provides the most precise estimate, and consequently dominates the result. The philosophy of the random effects model says that each study somehow has it own rights and therefore gives a little more weight to the smaller studies. But if there are only few of them, the problem is that the heterogeneity variance becomes difficult to estimate.
2) why is rma.glmm better than rma.uni which I have used in R to apply random effect models for ORs? Is there a way to apply rma.glmm using log(OR) and the standard error of the OR (which is what I have available) instead of the contingency tables it requires?
As I am not very used to metafor (I mostly use meta), there are others more qualified to answer this. If I understand this correctly, rma.glmm uses a one-stage approach which avoids the problems with two-stage approaches mentioned above. I am not sure whether you make a distinction between OR and logOR? There is no difference between the models with respect to this - they all model the log of the OR, and the standard errors you have most probably also refer to the log OR. Best, Gerta
Many thanks again for your help.
Best wishes,
Emanuele
On Fri, 4 Sep 2020 at 11:55, Gerta Ruecker
<ruecker at imbi.uni-freiburg.de <mailto:ruecker at imbi.uni-freiburg.de>>
wrote:
Dear Emanuele,
To your first question: First, Cochrane doesn't recommend
weighting by
N. Cochrane (and others) recommend weighting by inverse variance,
and in
the case of a binary outcome (you mention odds ratios) it is even
better
to use a generalised linear mixed model (GLMM), e.g., logistic
regression. Also random effect models are available. A random effect
model is suitable to mitigate the effect of the largest study, or to
upweight smaller studies, which seems to be desired in your case.
To the second question: One possibility would be meta-regression with
length of follow-up as a covariate. Is length of follow-up a
study-level
covariate, or an individual-level covariate? There is no problem
in the
first case, but it may be problematic in the second case, when each
individual has a different length of follow-up.
Best,
Gerta
Am 04.09.2020 um 12:22 schrieb Emanuele F. Osimo:
> Dear all,
> I am conducting a random-effects meta-analysis of 4 longitudinal
studies
> measuring a blood inflammatory marker earlier on in life, and an
unrelated
> outcome (measured in an interview) years later.
> The studies are not uniform in N (one is about 80k people, the 2
smallest
> are about 2k people) and in time to follow up (ranging from 8 to
21 years).
> I have odds ratios? and 95% confidence intervals for the outcome
based on
> cut-offs of the baseline marker (e.g. outcome for inflamed vs
outcome for
> non-inflamed).
>
> I have 2 questions for you:
> 1- if I use weighting by N, as recommended by Cochrane, I am
basically
> reporting the findings of the larger study, which gets 88% of
the weight.
> The larger study is possibly qualitatively less good than the 2
smallest
> studies. What do you suggest to use for weighting? Is there any
compound
> weighting methods that takes into account, say, study quality, N and
> inverse variance?
> 2- time to follow-up: even if I am not measuring a difference in
outcome
> over time, but just the risk of an outcome after an exposure, do
I need to
> adjust for time to follow-up? And how?
>
> Many thanks in advance for your time and thoughts on this.
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Emanuele
>
>? ? ? ?[[alternative HTML version deleted]]
>
> _______________________________________________
> R-sig-meta-analysis mailing list
> R-sig-meta-analysis at r-project.org
<mailto:R-sig-meta-analysis at r-project.org>
--
Dr. rer. nat. Gerta R?cker, Dipl.-Math.
Institute of Medical Biometry and Statistics,
Faculty of Medicine and Medical Center - University of Freiburg
Stefan-Meier-Str. 26, D-79104 Freiburg, Germany
Phone:? ? +49/761/203-6673
Fax:? ? ? +49/761/203-6680
Mail: ruecker at imbi.uni-freiburg.de
<mailto:ruecker at imbi.uni-freiburg.de>
Homepage:
https://www.uniklinik-freiburg.de/imbi-en/employees.html?imbiuser=ruecker
Dr. rer. nat. Gerta R?cker, Dipl.-Math. Institute of Medical Biometry and Statistics, Faculty of Medicine and Medical Center - University of Freiburg Stefan-Meier-Str. 26, D-79104 Freiburg, Germany Phone: +49/761/203-6673 Fax: +49/761/203-6680 Mail: ruecker at imbi.uni-freiburg.de Homepage: https://www.uniklinik-freiburg.de/imbi-en/employees.html?imbiuser=ruecker [[alternative HTML version deleted]]
Just chiming in briefly here: The answer to 2) is No. If you only have the log odds ratios and corresponding standard errors, then you cannot use rma.glmm(). To fit logistic regression models, you need the 2x2 table counts. Best, Wolfgang
-----Original Message----- From: R-sig-meta-analysis [mailto:r-sig-meta-analysis-bounces at r-project.org] On Behalf Of Gerta Ruecker Sent: Monday, 07 September, 2020 16:23 To: Emanuele F. Osimo Cc: r-sig-meta-analysis at r-project.org Subject: Re: [R-meta] Need to specify meta analysis weights Dear Emanuele, My answers see inline below. Am 07.09.2020 um 15:38 schrieb Emanuele F. Osimo:
Dear Gerta, many thanks for your reply. A couple of follow-up?questions: 1) does using inverse variance to weight studies hold when only few studies are included, and one is much bigger than the others?
Inverse variance weighting is relatively uncontroversial if data are continuous and the fixed (more precise: the common) effect model is used. (In parentheses: There have been a few controversies with respect to the random effects model, but the majority of statisticians would recommend it.) For binary data, the inverse variance method had also been recommended for a long time, but most of us become more and more aware that the two-stage methods are not optimal, particularly in case of rare events. If one study is much bigger than the others, the philosophy of the common effect model says that the large study provides the most precise estimate, and consequently dominates the result. The philosophy of the random effects model says that each study somehow has it own rights and therefore gives a little more weight to the smaller studies. But if there are only few of them, the problem is that the heterogeneity variance becomes difficult to estimate.
2) why is rma.glmm better than rma.uni which I have used in R to apply random effect models for ORs? Is there a way to apply rma.glmm using log(OR) and the standard error of the OR (which is what I have available) instead of the contingency tables it requires?
As I am not very used to metafor (I mostly use meta), there are others more qualified to answer this. If I understand this correctly, rma.glmm uses a one-stage approach which avoids the problems with two-stage approaches mentioned above. I am not sure whether you make a distinction between OR and logOR? There is no difference between the models with respect to this - they all model the log of the OR, and the standard errors you have most probably also refer to the log OR. Best, Gerta