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seeking some advice on fixed vs random specification

David,

Have you considered that is TIME*REGION is crossed as fixed effects, you should also treat them as crossed if they are random effects (and not nested), thus

lmer(log(CONT) ~ WB_TYPE + PORT*len + (1|TIME) + (1|REGION/wb_id))

Are TIME and REGION considered to be two independent sources of random variation, which would be implied by this model?

If you want model variation across time differently for each region, then perhaps (TIME | REGION/wb_id) may be more appropriate.

I would interpret (1|TIME/REGION), based on analogy to (1 | BLOCK/PLOT), to mean the REGION identified as "1" in TIME "A" would not be in any way related to REGION "1" in TIME "B"; that is, the region identifier only has meaning within the context of the time identifier.

Peter Claussen
Gylling Data Management
On Oct 31, 2011, at 9:27 AM, david depew wrote: