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Equivalence of (0 + factor|group) and (1|group) + (1|group:factor) random effect specifications in case of compound symmetry

Thanks, this really helped me understand the models!

There is one thing I still don't understand: I think that compound symmetry
implies equal variances within the factor levels and equal
covariances/correlations between the levels. If there are equal variances
within the factor levels and no correlations between the levels I
understand the equivalence of m1, m.zcp and m2.

But what if there are correlations between the levels? you explained that
m2 forces the correlation parameters to zero. But Douglas Bates states that
the models are equivalent given compound symmetry (which I think doesn't
imply zero correlations).

Just to double check: This m1 -> m.zcp -> m2 -> m.vio is a reasonable model
reduction approach, right?

2017-09-23 13:51 GMT+02:00 Reinhold Kliegl <reinhold.kliegl at gmail.com>: