significance test of random and fixed effects in (quasi) poisson GLMM
I guess the overdispersion parameter is equivalent to the sigma (within-group residual variance), which can be retrieved simply typing 'model$sigma' where 'model' is a glmmPQL object. I ran some analysis with alternatives models based on GAM and the estimate is coherent with the overdispersion parameter returned by them. Just remember that the phi (overdispersion parameter) is equal to sigma^2. The estimates from glmmPQL seem coherent both in my analysis on real data and from simulations. As already reported, glmmPQL always estimates a sigma (overdispersion) both with family 'poisson' or 'quasipoisson'. I think this is a problem related to the iterative calls to 'lme' for simple linear mixed models, where the sigma is not a fixed parameter as in Poisson models. Regards, Antonio Gasparrini Public and Environmental Health Research Unit (PEHRU) London School of Hygiene & Tropical Medicine Keppel Street, London WC1E 7HT, UK Office: 0044 (0)20 79272406 - Mobile: 0044 (0)79 64925523
r-sig-mixed-models-request at r-project.org> 15/03/2010 11:00 >> ( mailto:r-sig-mixed-models-request at r-project.org> )
Message: 1 Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2010 10:44:24 +0100 From: Vincent Kint <Vincent.Kint at ees.kuleuven.be> To: "r-sig-mixed-models at r-project.org" <r-sig-mixed-models at r-project.org> Subject: Re: [R-sig-ME] significance test of random and fixed effects in(quasi) poisson GLMM Message-ID: <562EA47F252E594B826D3B440E0B34A21288E58045 at ICTS-S-EXC2-CA.luna.kuleuven.be> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Dear Antonio and list members, Thanks for the reply. The problem with quasi GLMM in lme4 seems to have been reported several times. As you suggested, I tried with glmmPQL, but I don't find how to retreive the overdispersion factor (it is not in the summary). Also, I don't see any difference using poisson or quasipoisson. Does that mean that this method is correcting for overdispersion in both cases? Further suggestions on how to test fixed and radom factors in GLMMs are still welcome. Regards, Vincent
From: Antonio.Gasparrini at lshtm.ac.uk [Antonio.Gasparrini at lshtm.ac.uk]
Sent: 13 March 2010 14:09
To: r-sig-mixed-models at r-project.org
Cc: Vincent Kint
Subject: Re: significance test of random and fixed effects in (quasi) poisson GLMM
Sent: 13 March 2010 14:09
To: r-sig-mixed-models at r-project.org
Cc: Vincent Kint
Subject: Re: significance test of random and fixed effects in (quasi) poisson GLMM
Dear Vincent, some time ago I posted a question on Poisson GLMM for overdispersed data, including a simple simulation in order to compare the reliability of glmmPQL and glmer. See https://stat.ethz.ch/pipermail/r-sig-mixed-models/2010q1/003289.html While glmmPQL returns the correct estimates, glmer largely overestimated the sigma (corresponding to the overdispersion), producing an inflated within-group residual variance. This odd behaviour seems to be confirmed by your analysis. As pointed out in the response I had to my question, the quasi-Poisson is not a distribution and the results are not grounded on an appropriate statistical theory. Anyway, as in your case, the quasipoisson family is currently used and I would expect the command to return (approximate) correct results. My suggestion is to repeat the analysis with glmmPQL, even if this doesn't solve your problem to run a test. To my knowledge, the approximation used by the penalized quasi-likelihood method is reasonable for Poisson data and a moderate number of counts (McCulloch & Searle say with mean count of 7 or higher). Interestingly, the command always estimates the sigma (not fixed to 1 as in Poisson) even with the simple poisson family. I hope this helps Antonio Gasparrini Public and Environmental Health Research Unit (PEHRU) London School of Hygiene & Tropical Medicine Keppel Street, London WC1E 7HT, UK Office: 0044 (0)20 79272406 - Mobile: 0044 (0)79 64925523 ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2010 15:46:23 +0100 From: Vincent Kint <Vincent.Kint at ees.kuleuven.be> To: "r-sig-mixed-models at r-project.org" <r-sig-mixed-models at r-project.org> Subject: [R-sig-ME] significance test of random and fixed effects in (quasi) poisson GLMM Message-ID: <562EA47F252E594B826D3B440E0B34A21288E5803C at ICTS-S-EXC2-CA.luna.kuleuven.be> Content-Type: text/plain Dear list members, I am new to this list, and new to generalised mixed modelling. My aim is to develop a model for tree branchiness (number of branches per tree, with trees measured in different plots) with both tree and plot-level predictors. My choice was for a generalised model using the poisson family, since I have count data. And for a mixed approach since I have a nested design. I built a first model using the lme4 package (see below). My question is: is there an approximate test for the significance of the random effect? From previous posts on this list, I understand that such a test is not always reliable, and good alternatives are not implemented yet. But from my perspective of an applied modeller, even an approximate test (or even a rule of thumb) would be helpful in making a decision. Indeed, if the random effect turns out to be likely not significant, I could do with a more simple GLM. In a second step I tried to correct for overdispersion by running the same model as a quasi GLMM. The output is also given below. Here I have the same question as before, but now also concerning the fixed effects. Additionally, I wonder whether I may have made a mistake in implementing this model, since I get a result where nearly all the variation is attributed to the error term, and (at a first glance) the random effect and all the fixed predictors seem to be irrelevant. I attach the output of both models below. Thanks for all suggestions on how to proceed. Vincent #1. The GLMM model > form1<-formula(response ~ TreeHeight + DBH + TreeAge + Vplot + mF + mL + (1 | plots)) > M.glmm<-lmer(form1, data=data, family=poisson) > summary(M.glmm) Generalized linear mixed model fit by the Laplace approximation Formula: form1 Data: data AIC BIC logLik deviance 976 1008 -480 960 Random effects: Groups Name Variance Std.Dev. plots (Intercept) 0.044913 0.21193 Number of obs: 399, groups: plots, 30 Fixed effects: Estimate Std. Error z value Pr(>|z|) (Intercept) 6.0090427 1.4143768 4.249 2.15e-05 *** TreeHeight -0.0398146 0.0125816 -3.165 0.001553 ** DBH 0.0032600 0.0006599 4.940 7.80e-07 *** TreeAge -0.1193541 0.0242996 -4.912 9.03e-07 *** Vplot -0.0060713 0.0016115 -3.768 0.000165 *** mF -0.4838699 0.1672462 -2.893 0.003814 ** mL 0.4878563 0.1731139 2.818 0.004831 ** --- Signif. codes: 0 ?***? 0.001 ?**? 0.01 ?*? 0.05 ?.? 0.1 ? ? 1 #2. The same GLMM model with overdispersion > M.glmm.q<-lmer(form1, data=data, family=quasipoisson) > summary(M.glmm.q) Generalized linear mixed model fit by the Laplace approximation Formula: form1 Data: data AIC BIC logLik deviance 978 1014 -480 960 Random effects: Groups Name Variance Std.Dev. plots (Intercept) 1.6478 1.2837 Residual 36.6894 6.0572 Number of obs: 399, groups: plots, 30 Fixed effects: Estimate Std. Error t value (Intercept) 6.009043 8.567129 0.701 TreeHeight -0.039815 0.076209 -0.522 DBH 0.003260 0.003997 0.816 TreeAge -0.119354 0.147187 -0.811 Vplot -0.006071 0.009761 -0.622 mF -0.483870 1.013039 -0.478 mL 0.487856 1.048581 0.465 _____________________________________ dr. ir. V. KINT Forest Ecology and Management Division Forest, Nature and Landscape K.U.Leuven Celestijnenlaan 200E - B-3001 Leuven Tel.: +32 16 32 97 69 Fax: +32 16 32 97 60 vincent.kint at ees.kuleuven.be www.kuleuven.be/forecoman<http://www.kuleuven.be/forecoman> [[alternative HTML version deleted]] ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ R-sig-mixed-models mailing list R-sig-mixed-models at r-project.org https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-sig-mixed-models End of R-sig-mixed-models Digest, Vol 39, Issue 23