What is the lmer/nlme equivalent of the REPEATED subcommand in SPSS's MIXED procedure?
Hi Maarten,
In gls there are no (three) random intercepts for the occasions, there
are only "residuals" which are allowed to correlate. Singer and Willett
call these residuals "composite" residuals. For the observations on
occasion 1 the model equations are:
lmer model: test1 = b0 + b1*occ1 + uj + eij
gls model: test1 = b0 + b1*occ1 + residual
This shows that uj+eij in lmer is replaced by just one term "residual"
in gls. Hence the term "composite residuals".
Returning to ignoring the nobs.vs.nRE rule, we could also specify this
model with three dummies and no intercept:
# Unstructured model using lmer and dummies for occasion: does not
converge.
unstruc.lmer <- lmer(test ~ -1+occ1+ occ2 + occ3 +
(-1+occ1+occ2+occ3|person),
data=mydata, REML=TRUE,
control = lmerControl(check.nobs.vs.nRE = "ignore"),
)
summary(unstruc.lmer)
You will see in the results that the sum of each random occasion
variance PLUS the residual variance exactly equals the observed
variance. This implies that the unidentifiability of this model with
lmer is caused by the fact that the 3 observed variances must be
estimated with 4 parameters. Increasing the estimated value of the
residual variance with a constant, A, means that for the 3 occasion
random effect variances, the estimated values must be decreased by A to
end up with the same estimates of the variances in the dependent
variable at all three timepoints. And the fit in terms of loglikelihood
would be equal.
Regards, Ben.
, relates to the also probably may have noticed that in the "solution"
you obtained by ignoring the nobs.vs.nRE rule, the sum of the random
occasion effect for time=1
On 22/03/2018 11:03, Maarten Jung wrote:
Hi Ben,
I'm aware of this problem for lmer.
But how does gls() overcome the problem?
Regards,
Maarten
On Thu, Mar 22, 2018, 10:44 Ben Pelzer <b.pelzer at maw.ru.nl
<mailto:b.pelzer at maw.ru.nl>> wrote:
Hi Maarten,
Notice that with the syntax for lmer, 6 random-effect
(co)variances must
be estimated and 1 residual variance, so in total 7
(co)variance-parameters. However, there are only 6 observed
covariances,
meaning that the model is over-specified. Many solutions are possible
all having the same loglikelihood. Ignoring the nobs.vs.nRE rule leads
to just one of the many solutions. I would not be surprised if you
would
find another solution after manipulating the starting values for the
covariances or other criteria for convergence. Best regards,
Ben.
On 22/03/2018 10:05, Maarten Jung wrote:
> I think the problem is that there is only one observation per
> subject-occasion-combination in this example.
> In this case the random slopes are confounded with the residual
> variation (see [1]).
>
> One *can* fit this model using lmer(test ~ 1 + occ2 + occ3 + (1
+ occ2
> + occ3|person), data = mydata, control =
> lmerControl(check.nobs.vs.nRE = "ignore")) or
> lme(test ~ 1 + occ2 + occ3, mydata, random = ~ occ2 + occ3|person).
>
> However, I don't know if the gls() fit ist more trustworthy than the
> lmer/lme fit here.
> I would be grateful if somebody more experienced in mixed models
could
> comment on this.
>
> Best regards,
> Maarten
>
> [1]
>
https://stackoverflow.com/questions/26465215/random-slope-for-time-in-subject-not-working-in-lme4?utm_medium=organic&utm_source=google_rich_qa&utm_campaign=google_rich_qa
>
> On Wed, Mar 21, 2018 at 9:27 PM, Ben Pelzer <b.pelzer at maw.ru.nl
<mailto:b.pelzer at maw.ru.nl>
> <mailto:b.pelzer at maw.ru.nl <mailto:b.pelzer at maw.ru.nl>>> wrote:
>
> Hi Maarten,
>
> Here is an example which shows the unstructured model with
gls and the
> not converging model with lmer. In this example, we have three
> occasions
> on which the dependent variable "test" was observed, for
each of 20
> persons. In total then we have 60 observations, with the
"occasion"
> variable taking values 1, 2, 3. The data also contain the
person id
> variable "person" and dummy variables "occ1", "occ2", "occ3"
as (0
> or 1)
> indicators of the occasion. In the syntax below, a factor
variable
> "factor1" is created also, to be in line with your question.
>
> I used two different specifications for the unstructured model
> with gls,
> depending on whether dummies or factor1 was used. For lmer,
I used
> these
> three different specifications, none of which converges.
>
> The lmer syntax was added only to show the problem which
lmer has with
> estimating an unstructured correlation pattern.
>
>
>
#------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> mydata <-
>
>
> header=TRUE)
>
>
> #------------------- unstructured correlation matrix
> -----------------------
>
>
> # Before applying a model, let's first examine the variances and
> correlations
> # for the three occasions. We have a strong violation of the
> assumptions
> # of homoscedasticity and compound symmetry.
> test1 <- mydata[mydata$occasion==1,"test"]
> test2 <- mydata[mydata$occasion==2,"test"]
> test3 <- mydata[mydata$occasion==3,"test"]
> cor(cbind(test1, test2, test3))
> var(cbind(test1, test2, test3))
>
> # Unstructured model using gls from package nlme and dummies for
> occasion.
> # This model exactly reproduces the observed correlations
between
> occasions.
> unstruc.gls1 <- gls(test ~ 1+ occ2 + occ3,
> method="REML", data=mydata,
> correlation=corSymm(form = ~ 1 |person),
> weights = varIdent(form =
~1|occasion))
> summary(unstruc.gls1)
>
>
> # Unstructured model using factor1 for occasion instead of
dummies.
> # The results are exactly the same as those above, as should be.
> mydata$factor1 <- as.factor(mydata$occasion)
> unstruc.gls2 <- gls(test ~ factor1,
> method="REML", data=mydata,
> correlation=corSymm(form = ~ 1|person),
> weights = varIdent(form = ~1|factor1))
> summary(unstruc.gls2)
>
>
> # Unstructured model using lmer and dummies for occasion:
does not
> converge.
> unstruc.lmer <- lmer(test ~ 1+ occ2 + occ3 +
(1+occ2+occ3|person),
> data=mydata, REML=TRUE)
> summary(unstruc.lmer)
>
>
> # Unstructured model using lmer and factor1 for occasion:
does not
> converge.
> unstruc.lmer <- lmer(test ~ 1+ factor1 + (1+factor1|person),
> data=mydata, REML=TRUE)
> summary(unstruc.lmer)
>
>
> # Unstructured model using lmer and factor1 for occasion, no
intercept
> specified: does not converge.
> unstruc.lmer <- lmer(test ~ factor1 + (factor1|person),
> data=mydata, REML=TRUE)
> summary(unstruc.lmer)
>
>
>
> On 21/03/2018 13:07, Maarten Jung wrote:
> > Dear Ben,
> >
> > I am a bit puzzled.
> >
> > Do you mean that
> >
> > m1 <- gls(value ~ factor1, data, correlation =
corSymm(form = ~
> > 1|participant), weights = varIdent(form = ~ 1|factor))
> >
> > would be equivalent to
> >
> > m2 <- lmer(value ~ factor1 + (factor1|participant), data)
> >
> > and one should use gls() because it allows for the same
covariance
> > structures as /REPEATED does?
> >
>
>
> the two specifications are not equivalent in the sense that
lmer also
> tries to estimate residual variance. However, with the given
lmer
> model
> specification, the random factor1 effects capture all variance
> there is
> and no residual variance remains.
>
>
> > And, if so, why should m2 cause an identification problem
and m1
> doesn't?
> >
> > Regards,
> > Maarten
> >
> Regards, Ben.
>
>
>
> >
> > On Wed, Mar 21, 2018 at 12:03 PM, Ben Pelzer
<b.pelzer at maw.ru.nl <mailto:b.pelzer at maw.ru.nl>
> <mailto:b.pelzer at maw.ru.nl <mailto:b.pelzer at maw.ru.nl>>
> > <mailto:b.pelzer at maw.ru.nl <mailto:b.pelzer at maw.ru.nl>
<mailto:b.pelzer at maw.ru.nl <mailto:b.pelzer at maw.ru.nl>>>> wrote:
> >
> > Dear all,
> >
> > As far as I know, the specification for lmer using
> >
> > value ~ factor1 + (factor1 | participant)
> >
> > causes an identification problem, because the residual
> variance is not
> > excluded from the estimations. It would indeed work
(e.g. in
> MlWin
> > this
> > can be done) if we could constrain that residual
variance to
> zero.
> > There
> > have been some mails in this list about whether or not
> constraining
> > residual variance to zero is possible in lmer, but I
believe
> this
> > is not
> > possible. Would be nice if we could do this in lmer!
> >
> > Best regards, Ben.
> >
> >
> > On 20-3-2018 18:34, Douglas Bates wrote:
> > > Kind of looks like SPSS went for bug-for-bug
compatibility
> with
> > SAS on
> > > this one. In SAS PROC MIXED, "REPEATED" and
"RANDOM" are two
> > ways of
> > > specifying the random effects variance structure but
they
> often boil
> > > down to the same model.
> > >
> > > I believe the model can be specified in lme4 as
> > >
> > > value ~ factor1 + (factor1 | participant)
> > >
> > > This is what the mis-named* "UNSTRUCTURED"
covariance type
> means
> > >
> > > * Old-guy, get off my lawn rant about terminology *
> > > As a recovering mathematician I find the name
> "unstructured" being
> > > used to denote a positive-definite symmetric matrix
to be,
> well,
> > > inaccurate.
> > >
> > > On Tue, Mar 20, 2018 at 12:19 PM Mollie Brooks
> > > <mollieebrooks at gmail.com
<mailto:mollieebrooks at gmail.com> <mailto:mollieebrooks at gmail.com
<mailto:mollieebrooks at gmail.com>>
> <mailto:mollieebrooks at gmail.com
<mailto:mollieebrooks at gmail.com> <mailto:mollieebrooks at gmail.com
<mailto:mollieebrooks at gmail.com>>>
> > <mailto:mollieebrooks at gmail.com
<mailto:mollieebrooks at gmail.com>
> <mailto:mollieebrooks at gmail.com
<mailto:mollieebrooks at gmail.com>> <mailto:mollieebrooks at gmail.com
<mailto:mollieebrooks at gmail.com>
> <mailto:mollieebrooks at gmail.com
<mailto:mollieebrooks at gmail.com>>>>>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > I don?t know anything about spss, but if you
basically
> want lme4
> > > with more correlation structures, you could look
at the
> > structures
> > > available with glmmTMB.
> > >
> >
>
>
> >
>
>
> > >
> > > cheers,
> > > Mollie
> > >
> > > > On 20Mar 2018, at 18:11, Ben Pelzer
> <b.pelzer at maw.ru.nl <mailto:b.pelzer at maw.ru.nl>
<mailto:b.pelzer at maw.ru.nl <mailto:b.pelzer at maw.ru.nl>>
> > <mailto:b.pelzer at maw.ru.nl <mailto:b.pelzer at maw.ru.nl>
<mailto:b.pelzer at maw.ru.nl <mailto:b.pelzer at maw.ru.nl>>>
> > > <mailto:b.pelzer at maw.ru.nl
<mailto:b.pelzer at maw.ru.nl> <mailto:b.pelzer at maw.ru.nl
<mailto:b.pelzer at maw.ru.nl>>
> <mailto:b.pelzer at maw.ru.nl <mailto:b.pelzer at maw.ru.nl>
<mailto:b.pelzer at maw.ru.nl <mailto:b.pelzer at maw.ru.nl>>>>> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Hi Maarten,
> > > >
> > > > You are right: you need nlme and NOT lme4 to
specify
> > particular
> > > > correlation structures. Also, in nlme you
would need gls
> > to make it
> > > > similar to mixed in spss. The repeated command
in spss
> > gives the
> > > same
> > > > results as gls does for any of the covariance
> structures.
> > > >
> > > > Regards, Ben.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On 20/03/2018 17:30, Maarten Jung wrote:
> > > >> Dear Ben, dear Phillip,
> > > >>
> > > >> comparing [1] with [2] I think the /REPEATED
command
> > specifies
> > > >> the error (co)variance structure of the model.
> Would you
> > agree
> > > with that?
> > > >> If so, AFAIK this is not possible with lmer and
> thus the
> > answer on
> > > >> Stack Overflow [3] would be wrong.
> > > >>
> > > >> [1]
> > > >>
> > >
> >
>
>
> >
>
>
> > > >> [2]
> > > >>
> > >
> >
>
>
> >
>
>
> > > >> [3]
> > > >>
> > >
> >
>
>
> >
>
>
> > > >>
> > > >> Regards,
> > > >> Maarten
> > > >>
> > > >> On Tue, Mar 20, 2018 at 2:10 PM, Ben Pelzer
> > <b.pelzer at maw.ru.nl <mailto:b.pelzer at maw.ru.nl>
<mailto:b.pelzer at maw.ru.nl <mailto:b.pelzer at maw.ru.nl>>
> <mailto:b.pelzer at maw.ru.nl <mailto:b.pelzer at maw.ru.nl>
<mailto:b.pelzer at maw.ru.nl <mailto:b.pelzer at maw.ru.nl>>>
> > > <mailto:b.pelzer at maw.ru.nl
<mailto:b.pelzer at maw.ru.nl> <mailto:b.pelzer at maw.ru.nl
<mailto:b.pelzer at maw.ru.nl>>
> <mailto:b.pelzer at maw.ru.nl <mailto:b.pelzer at maw.ru.nl>
<mailto:b.pelzer at maw.ru.nl <mailto:b.pelzer at maw.ru.nl>>>>
> > > >> <mailto:b.pelzer at maw.ru.nl
<mailto:b.pelzer at maw.ru.nl>
> <mailto:b.pelzer at maw.ru.nl <mailto:b.pelzer at maw.ru.nl>>
<mailto:b.pelzer at maw.ru.nl <mailto:b.pelzer at maw.ru.nl>
> <mailto:b.pelzer at maw.ru.nl <mailto:b.pelzer at maw.ru.nl>>>
> > <mailto:b.pelzer at maw.ru.nl <mailto:b.pelzer at maw.ru.nl>
<mailto:b.pelzer at maw.ru.nl <mailto:b.pelzer at maw.ru.nl>>
> <mailto:b.pelzer at maw.ru.nl <mailto:b.pelzer at maw.ru.nl>
<mailto:b.pelzer at maw.ru.nl <mailto:b.pelzer at maw.ru.nl>>>>
> > > <mailto:b.pelzer at maw.ru.nl
<mailto:b.pelzer at maw.ru.nl> <mailto:b.pelzer at maw.ru.nl
<mailto:b.pelzer at maw.ru.nl>>
> <mailto:b.pelzer at maw.ru.nl <mailto:b.pelzer at maw.ru.nl>
<mailto:b.pelzer at maw.ru.nl <mailto:b.pelzer at maw.ru.nl>>>
> > <mailto:b.pelzer at maw.ru.nl <mailto:b.pelzer at maw.ru.nl>
<mailto:b.pelzer at maw.ru.nl <mailto:b.pelzer at maw.ru.nl>>
> <mailto:b.pelzer at maw.ru.nl <mailto:b.pelzer at maw.ru.nl>
<mailto:b.pelzer at maw.ru.nl <mailto:b.pelzer at maw.ru.nl>>>>>>> wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >> Dear Maarten,
> > > >>
> > > >> Take a look at
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > >
> >
>
>
> >
>
>
> > >
> >
>
>
> >
>
>
> > > >>
> > >
> >
>
>
> >
>
>
> > >
> >
>
>
> >
>
>
> > > >>
> > > >> which shows you a number of covariance
> structures, among
> > > which is
> > > >> the unstructured matrix, for repeated
measures in R
> > with lme. It
> > > >> refers to chapter 7 of Singer and Willett
where they
> > discuss all
> > > >> these different structures and how to choose
> among them.
> > > Regards,
> > > >>
> > > >> Ben.
> > > >>
> > > >> On 20-3-2018 9:00, Maarten Jung wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >> Dear list,
> > > >> I came across a SPSS syntax like this
> > > >>
> > > >> MIXED value BY factor1
> > > >> /CRITERIA=CIN(95) MXITER(100) MXSTEP(10)
> > SCORING(1)
> > > >> SINGULAR(0.000000000001)
> > > >> HCONVERGE(0, ABSOLUTE) LCONVERGE(0,
> ABSOLUTE)
> > > >> PCONVERGE(0.000001,
> > > >> ABSOLUTE)
> > > >> /FIXED=factor1 | SSTYPE(3)
> > > >> /METHOD=REML
> > > >> /REPEATED=factor1 | SUBJECT(participant)
> > COVTYPE(UN).
> > > >>
> > > >> and struggle to find an equivalent
lmer/nlme
> (or R in
> > > general)
> > > >> formulation
> > > >> for this kind of models.
> > > >> Does anybody know how to convert the
REPEATED
> > subcommand
> > > into
> > > >> R code?
> > > >>
> > > >> Please note that I asked the question
on Stack
> > Overflow
> > > about
> > > >> two month ago:
> > > >>
> > >
> >
>
>
> >
>
>
> > >
> >
>
>
> >
>
>
> > > >>
> > >
> >
>
>
> >
>
>
> > >
> >
>
>
> >
>
>
> > > >>
> > > >> Best regards,
> > > >> Maarten
> > > >>
> > > >> [[alternative HTML version deleted]]
> > > >>
> > > >> _______________________________________________
> > > >> R-sig-mixed-models at r-project.org
<mailto:R-sig-mixed-models at r-project.org>
> <mailto:R-sig-mixed-models at r-project.org
<mailto:R-sig-mixed-models at r-project.org>>
> > <mailto:R-sig-mixed-models at r-project.org
<mailto:R-sig-mixed-models at r-project.org>
> <mailto:R-sig-mixed-models at r-project.org
<mailto:R-sig-mixed-models at r-project.org>>>
> > > <mailto:R-sig-mixed-models at r-project.org
<mailto:R-sig-mixed-models at r-project.org>
> <mailto:R-sig-mixed-models at r-project.org
<mailto:R-sig-mixed-models at r-project.org>>
> > <mailto:R-sig-mixed-models at r-project.org
<mailto:R-sig-mixed-models at r-project.org>
> <mailto:R-sig-mixed-models at r-project.org
<mailto:R-sig-mixed-models at r-project.org>>>>
> > > <mailto:R-sig-mixed-models at r-project.org
<mailto:R-sig-mixed-models at r-project.org>
> <mailto:R-sig-mixed-models at r-project.org
<mailto:R-sig-mixed-models at r-project.org>>
> > <mailto:R-sig-mixed-models at r-project.org
<mailto:R-sig-mixed-models at r-project.org>
> <mailto:R-sig-mixed-models at r-project.org
<mailto:R-sig-mixed-models at r-project.org>>>
> > > <mailto:R-sig-mixed-models at r-project.org
<mailto:R-sig-mixed-models at r-project.org>
> <mailto:R-sig-mixed-models at r-project.org
<mailto:R-sig-mixed-models at r-project.org>>
> > <mailto:R-sig-mixed-models at r-project.org
<mailto:R-sig-mixed-models at r-project.org>
> <mailto:R-sig-mixed-models at r-project.org
<mailto:R-sig-mixed-models at r-project.org>>>>>
> > > >>
<mailto:R-sig-mixed-models at r-project.org
<mailto:R-sig-mixed-models at r-project.org>
> <mailto:R-sig-mixed-models at r-project.org
<mailto:R-sig-mixed-models at r-project.org>>
> > <mailto:R-sig-mixed-models at r-project.org
<mailto:R-sig-mixed-models at r-project.org>
> <mailto:R-sig-mixed-models at r-project.org
<mailto:R-sig-mixed-models at r-project.org>>>
> > > <mailto:R-sig-mixed-models at r-project.org
<mailto:R-sig-mixed-models at r-project.org>
> <mailto:R-sig-mixed-models at r-project.org
<mailto:R-sig-mixed-models at r-project.org>>
> > <mailto:R-sig-mixed-models at r-project.org
<mailto:R-sig-mixed-models at r-project.org>
> <mailto:R-sig-mixed-models at r-project.org
<mailto:R-sig-mixed-models at r-project.org>>>>
> > > <mailto:R-sig-mixed-models at r-project.org
<mailto:R-sig-mixed-models at r-project.org>
> <mailto:R-sig-mixed-models at r-project.org
<mailto:R-sig-mixed-models at r-project.org>>
> > <mailto:R-sig-mixed-models at r-project.org
<mailto:R-sig-mixed-models at r-project.org>
> <mailto:R-sig-mixed-models at r-project.org
<mailto:R-sig-mixed-models at r-project.org>>>
> > > <mailto:R-sig-mixed-models at r-project.org
<mailto:R-sig-mixed-models at r-project.org>
> <mailto:R-sig-mixed-models at r-project.org
<mailto:R-sig-mixed-models at r-project.org>>
> > <mailto:R-sig-mixed-models at r-project.org
<mailto:R-sig-mixed-models at r-project.org>
> <mailto:R-sig-mixed-models at r-project.org
<mailto:R-sig-mixed-models at r-project.org>>>>>> mailing list
> > > >>
> https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-sig-mixed-models > <https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-sig-mixed-models>
> > >
> <https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-sig-mixed-models > <https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-sig-mixed-models>
> > > >>
> > >
> <https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-sig-mixed-models > <https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-sig-mixed-models>
> > >
> <https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-sig-mixed-models > <https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-sig-mixed-models>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> _______________________________________________
> > > >> R-sig-mixed-models at r-project.org
<mailto:R-sig-mixed-models at r-project.org>
> <mailto:R-sig-mixed-models at r-project.org
<mailto:R-sig-mixed-models at r-project.org>>
> > <mailto:R-sig-mixed-models at r-project.org
<mailto:R-sig-mixed-models at r-project.org>
> <mailto:R-sig-mixed-models at r-project.org
<mailto:R-sig-mixed-models at r-project.org>>>
> > > <mailto:R-sig-mixed-models at r-project.org
<mailto:R-sig-mixed-models at r-project.org>
> <mailto:R-sig-mixed-models at r-project.org
<mailto:R-sig-mixed-models at r-project.org>>
> > <mailto:R-sig-mixed-models at r-project.org
<mailto:R-sig-mixed-models at r-project.org>
> <mailto:R-sig-mixed-models at r-project.org
<mailto:R-sig-mixed-models at r-project.org>>>>
> > > <mailto:R-sig-mixed-models at r-project.org
<mailto:R-sig-mixed-models at r-project.org>
> <mailto:R-sig-mixed-models at r-project.org
<mailto:R-sig-mixed-models at r-project.org>>
> > <mailto:R-sig-mixed-models at r-project.org
<mailto:R-sig-mixed-models at r-project.org>
> <mailto:R-sig-mixed-models at r-project.org
<mailto:R-sig-mixed-models at r-project.org>>>
> > > <mailto:R-sig-mixed-models at r-project.org
<mailto:R-sig-mixed-models at r-project.org>
> <mailto:R-sig-mixed-models at r-project.org
<mailto:R-sig-mixed-models at r-project.org>>
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