An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: not available URL: <https://stat.ethz.ch/pipermail/r-sig-mixed-models/attachments/20111010/0bfa9ca8/attachment.pl>
compare GAMs with simple random effects
2 messages · Valerio Bartolino, Gavin Simpson
On Mon, 2011-10-10 at 23:53 +0200, Valerio Bartolino wrote:
Dear list, I have a simple random effect that I would like to include in a GAM. I've seen that a simple random effect can be treated as a smooth in the library "mgcv" as follow s(x,bs="re"). My questions are:
I'll have a go as I haven't seen a response yet...
- In this way can I compare models with and without a random effect?
Yes, you should be able to compare the two models one with the re smooth and one without. However, you'll have to be be very careful to ensure you are really comparing like-with-like. gam() will be performing smoothness selection for all terms in the model. There is no guarantee that it will find the same smoothness to be optimal for the others terms when the re smooth is and is not included in the model. If you just fit the two models, you may well end up comparing the two models in terms of the random effect term *and* different fixed effects, all at the same time. I guess you could fit the model with the re term, take the smoothness complexity from each "fixed effect" term and tell gam() to use that and not do smoothness selection (fx = TRUE IIRC), and fit the model without the re smoother. That way the only difference between the two models is the re smoother. You can use anova() on the two models, but do heed the usual warnings about the interpretation of the p-value; you are testing if the variance parameter for the random effect is equal to zero and as you can't have negative variances, the test is on the boundary of the allowed values and hence the p-value will be biased low. You should also make sure you are fitting via method = "REML".
- Can I decide to drop a random effect if it is not significant in the model summary?
Yes, but you might wish to include it anyway, especially if it represents something inherent to the experiment or population you are studying. Just because it might not be needed in your sample of data doesn't mean the effect in the population is not there.
- How can I interpret the EDF of the random effect in the model summary?
I don't know how you can, however you could use gam.vcomp() on your model to compute the SD of the variance components for each smooth term in the model and their confidence intervals. This should allow you to get a handle on the random effects terms that is more familiar to lme() and lmer() like outputs. But do read ?gam.vcomp and ?smooth.construct.re.smooth.spec for some of the details. HTH G
Thank you in advance for any help or suggestions. Valerio Bartolino [[alternative HTML version deleted]]
_______________________________________________ R-sig-mixed-models at r-project.org mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-sig-mixed-models
%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~% Dr. Gavin Simpson [t] +44 (0)20 7679 0522 ECRC, UCL Geography, [f] +44 (0)20 7679 0565 Pearson Building, [e] gavin.simpsonATNOSPAMucl.ac.uk Gower Street, London [w] http://www.ucl.ac.uk/~ucfagls/ UK. WC1E 6BT. [w] http://www.freshwaters.org.uk %~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%~%